United3dArtists Archive

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 12 Feb 2011, 15:36

richlevy wrote: when I had problems with my USB, I had to send them the USB drive for them to confirm it not working...

send the key by mail? and we expect them to return the key from the other side of the world? it may take weeks. I hope the problem can be solved by the Internet, otherwise it is very restrictive. and if you lose the key? Maybe they can activate the soft by internet?

richlevy · Post by **richlevy** » 12 Feb 2011, 15:45

marcel wrote:
richlevy wrote: when I had problems with my USB, I had to send them the USB drive for them to confirm it not working...
send the key by mail? and we expect them to return the key from the other side of the world? it may take weeks. I hope the problem can be solved by the Internet, otherwise it is very restrictive. and if you lose the key?

I think they are a pretty easy going bunch, I placed the thumb drive in an envelope, placed a stamp on it and sent it in, it was that easy. The truth,

the drive must have fallen out of the envelope, when they got it they sent me an email describing the situation, than ok'd me getting another code hehehe...
Another reason to place it on an affordable USB thumb drive.

I heard a story of a guy putting his on an SSD drive (the bigger drives used to go for 600-1000 when they were new), when he ran into troubles he did not want to send the drive back, he spent months dealing with them. It is easier to just place it on an affordable thumb drive.

HTH

Rich

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 12 Feb 2011, 15:51

just got me a 16gb flash drive . that should do

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 12 Feb 2011, 16:56

i understand richlevy. It is not a problem of money. the price of an usb key or SD can be cheap. it is a problem of time. From france i can way a week before they help me. It is not a good solution for a professional. By internet, as many other software, the problem is resolved in an hour.
their solution is easy but very long if you need your software and your customer want your work. And if i lose the key i can wait several month like this guy with his harddrive befor they do something?

tylerzambori · Post by **tylerzambori** » 12 Feb 2011, 18:03

Marcel, why don't you write to PMG and ask them about it? They tend to be
reasonable people. A while ago, some guy went to work with his dongle in his
leather jacket. Somebody stole that jacket at work. The other messiah users
suggested to him to write to them and see if they wouldn't give him another
dongle. I don't remember how it worked out, but I do know they try to
be reasonable.

Somebody recommended getting a really good quality USB flash drive, like a
Corsair, to help ensure there won't be problems. So I guess I'm gonna have to
get a Corsair, and just leave it in the computer and never move it.

No more el cheapo ones from ebay that fall apart....

richlevy · Post by **richlevy** » 12 Feb 2011, 18:11

I think things like this are why many of the regulars at SetupTab are grabbing as many licenses as they can, besides letting them have more rendering pcs.

As Tyler Z. mentions, they are great people to deal with, they have many European customers, so I am sure they would understand deadlines and small studio priorities. Don't take my situation too literally. I have read many posts on the forums where an artist was facing a deadline and they needed help at zero hour and PMG came through, I do not ever recall reading a post from a user stating that they left them hangin in a tight situation. These people do this for a living also ( animations and VFX for movies both independent and large Hollywood productions)

A simple email to support should be all it takes to assure you and your concerns.

Rich

richlevy · Post by **richlevy** » 12 Feb 2011, 18:17

Well, I don't know about you guys but I have been playing around a lot the last week, this whole promotion has really got me excited about 3D again. I am getting back up to speed wih the composing tab, relearning how to load clips, create clips and saving clips. I purchased the FastMDD plugin the other day, I am going to be online this afternoon doing some training for MotionBuilder (AutoDesk)... a couple of weeks from now I should be comfortable enough to start playing for real again.... darn university, it keeps interfering with the really cool things in life.

Rich

tylerzambori · Post by **tylerzambori** » 12 Feb 2011, 18:28

richlevy wrote:I think things like this are why many of the regulars at SetupTab are grabbing as many licenses as they can, besides letting them have more rendering pcs.

As Tyler Z. mentions, they are great people to deal with, they have many European customers, so I am sure they would understand deadlines and small studio priorities. Don't take my situation too literally. I have read many posts on the forums where an artist was facing a deadline and they needed help at zero hour and PMG came through, I do not ever recall reading a post from a user stating that they left them hangin in a tight situation.

Me either, Rich.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 12 Feb 2011, 18:56

@ tylerzambori: yes i think they are reasonable people. if i use this software for the future for a professional work or not i hope to find a solution better than to mail my key or if i lose the key. with the price of this challenge it is a real opportunity to test it. Would a shame to miss it.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 12 Feb 2011, 20:16

If I understand correctly you just put a file on the USB key. Can you put the file on more than one key? It seems that would defeat the purpose of having the key, to prevent license violations, but it would remove the need to mail in a damaged key.

To be clear, I mean only using one key at time, or whatever the license allows, and having another as a backup in case the primary is damaged.

richlevy · Post by **richlevy** » 12 Feb 2011, 20:33

Finis wrote:If I understand correctly you just put a file on the USB key. Can you put the file on more than one key? It seems that would defeat the purpose of having the key, to prevent license violations, but it would remove the need to mail in a damaged key.

To be clear, I mean only using one key at time, or whatever the license allows, and having another as a backup in case the primary is damaged.

Each USB drive has an individual id, this is created when you format the drive, it is this id that distinguishes this drive from another, while you can copy the license file to any place you want, it will only work as long as it sees this id on the drive when the software starts. This is why if you format your drive after getting your license, you have to get another.

[edit] to further clarify, damn you guys are tough

you copy the file to the root of the drive for the drive to work, but you can also keep in anywhere else, it is just a text file from what I understand.

Rich

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 12 Feb 2011, 20:35

So Marcel being a Professional it would be worth it to buy two license.
$80 for this software would be a bargain.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 12 Feb 2011, 20:49

not sure to use it for my work but it is to learn character. i never do that (bones). No need character for the design i do. However his render engine can be a new tool for me if i can import obj from Ts. in fact i don't know really what i will do with this soft. it will be a surprise.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 12 Feb 2011, 20:58

Marcel, Steinie, and Prodigy (?), with character animation tools. Now that's just scary.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 12 Feb 2011, 22:53

marcel wrote:not sure to use it for my work but it is to learn character. i never do that (bones). No need character for the design i do. However his render engine can be a new tool for me if i can import obj from Ts. in fact i don't know really what i will do with this soft. it will be a surprise.

Thats exactly the oposite approach to how I deal with the matter.....
When I said before that Messiah didnt fit into my pipeline that was after carefully studying the options how i could use it in my pipeline.....
My decision towards software fell very long ago at times some of you were still with both legs in the Truespace camp....
It actually fell in 2003 when the infinite versions of Vue came out..... I knew at that stage that I wanted to use this path as my preferred instrument
and that the only thing that I missed was an unbiased render engine so I came to Kerkythea mainly because it was free and pretty good but eventually I moved to
Thea....
I am a photographer and do Cg mostly in my spare time so my resources and time are limited......
Deciding on a render engine is one of the most important decisions that one makes in ones Cg life.
Because I´m not a production house that decides on this on a project basis....
In all those years I built up hundreds of materials and shaders for the render engine that I use.......
For some reason way back in history Messiah isnt among those tools that play nicely with Vue..... only if you use lightwave as a middler it does.....
Also i had more then one headache with the FBX to Collada converter.......
Vue plays very nicely with the Poser and daz studio world... which I know isnt all to highly respected but for getting a few people into
the scenes its good enough....
Truespace workspce animation fits into the animation pipeline of Vue better then Messiah......
Maybe I´m wrong and a Messiah user knows of some magic way to get it easily into Vue ?
Peter

nigec · Post by **nigec** » 12 Feb 2011, 23:35

looking on their forum, hardly anything pro is rendered in Messiah, mostly rigging and animation.
I don't think the render engine is anything special, from what I've seen of your work Marcel I don't think you'd gain anything to be honest.
You should try Vue, fotr Scifi stuff its awesome

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 13 Feb 2011, 00:01

nigec wrote:looking on their forum, hardly anything pro is rendered in Messiah, mostly rigging and animation.
I don't think the render engine is anything special, from what I've seen of your work Marcel I don't think you'd gain anything to be honest.
You should try Vue, fotr Scifi stuff its awesome

Yes it´s a very good idea... from what I gathered from the work you have showed us......
The Messiah path is very good for toy story like animations.. not sci fi and product.....
Peter

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 13 Feb 2011, 00:05

It was just a suggestion. in fact as i said i don't know if i will use messiah. i buy this cheap challenge just to test it for the fun. that all. for my work TS and ligthwork are useful even if they are old. no need advanced software, just good idea and communication for design. also i can do design without computer if i want. i have not the same problem as Rayman, he need good quality of render for his work, not me and we can't have the same approach for the professionnal aspect. maybe if it was for my fun his choose of software are good. My best "professionnal tool" is my knowledge of manufacturing objets that i create to match with cost, marketting ,etc... it is more important for me than use a 3d software as a professionnal to be a designer.it's totally different than to be a cg graphic artist. And totally different than i show you here for the fun.

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 13 Feb 2011, 00:38

nigec wrote:looking on their forum, hardly anything pro is rendered in Messiah, mostly rigging and animation.
I don't think the render engine is anything special, from what I've seen of your work Marcel I don't think you'd gain anything to be honest.
You should try Vue, fotr Scifi stuff its awesome

I sincerely think you should do more homework before posting stuff like this, especially when you are trying to talk someone out of the deal of the decade. Remember, messiah is currently 40 bucks, and that includes unlimited render nodes.

40 bucks for this.....good enough for me.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 13 Feb 2011, 00:49

outside of my work, I prefer to have only fun with 3d even if I could do better with more sophisticated software at the cost of learning that bored me. next month I finished my animation and I will dedicate myself to something more creative. my movie has taken too long and it is time to change. maybe then I'll need other tools. hoping that learning does not disgusts me. i bought messiah to try it. i would like also to test vue. but I get lazy to learn since several years. and as this is not my work mattered, it does not require me to make an effort.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 13 Feb 2011, 00:59

marcel wrote:outside of my work, I prefer to have only fun with 3d even if I could do better with more sophisticated software at the cost of learning that bored me. next month I finished my animation and I will dedicate myself to something more creative. my movie has taken too long and it is time to change. maybe then I'll need other tools. hoping that learning does not disgusts me. i bought messiah to try it. i would like also to test vue. but I get lazy to learn since several years. and as this is not my work mattered, it does not require me to make an effort.

Marcel Messiah is an awsome tool I wish I had a way to use it better......so those 40 $ are well invested.
The Vue thing that Nigec suggested is a totally different story its also very easy to learn .. so dont get grey hair.. you would be up speed in no time...
I wished Vue had direct fbx support so that I could rig inside Messiah.. also I dont know if Messiah exports Collada since the exporter in the trial is disabled
which is a very strange practice for a 30 days version..... it wont work in 30 days anymore anyways...
Peter

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 13 Feb 2011, 01:17

[/quote]
I sincerely think you should do more homework before posting stuff like this, especially when you are trying to talk someone out of the deal of the decade. Remember, messiah is currently 40 bucks, and that includes unlimited render nodes.
40 bucks for this.....good enough for me.

[/quote]

I agree, the lifelike skin is also a reason to possibly purchase. This will be the best $40 investment I ever made.
I also realize this software isn't for everyone but where else can you get this power for a $40 plug-in...?

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 13 Feb 2011, 01:39

Steinie wrote:

I sincerely think you should do more homework before posting stuff like this, especially when you are trying to talk someone out of the deal of the decade. Remember, messiah is currently 40 bucks, and that includes unlimited render nodes.
40 bucks for this.....good enough for me.

[/quote]

I agree, the lifelike skin is also a reason to possibly purchase. This will be the best $40 investment I ever made.
I also realize this software isn't for everyone but where else can you get this power for a $40 plug-in...? (tongue in cheek)[/quote]
Steinie its already served one purpose it made you happy ! Thats a lot you get from 40 bucks......
Its also a very capable tool and it is a good solution for you......
Peter

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 13 Feb 2011, 01:59

For me, a hobbyist who would like to always develop greater skills, this is a great bargain. It gives me a good renderer to use soon, after much study a serious character animation program, and I get on the upgrade path for future versions (assuming I can ever upgrade my income to buy them).

Its renderer doesn't have to be Mental Ray or VRay to be great for most of us here.

In the short term I'd like to get Silo for modeling and then use Messiah for rendering and animation. Dream team: Modo, Vue, Messiah. Messiah claims to integrate well with Modo. I'm sorry to hear that it does not work well with Vue.

I wouldn't know if pro's have used it but I do notice that the website doesn't have any obvious bragging about what movies used it (Like Shrek, not art films). Of course, pro's might use its strength, character animation, and then use another renderer.

There are funny things at the bottom of the Messiah website's pages. One said, "Now with 86% more wow!"

nigec · Post by **nigec** » 13 Feb 2011, 02:10

Benji wrote: I sincerely think you should do more homework before posting stuff like this, especially when you are trying to talk someone out of the deal of the decade. Remember, messiah is currently 40 bucks, and that includes unlimited render nodes.

40 bucks for this.....good enough for me.

I'm sure Marcel is a big boy who can make up his own mind.
Anyway I think I'm done with U3A,.

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 13 Feb 2011, 02:24

Messiah doesn't export collada as far as I know. It does export to blender (via a plugin), which I think exports to collada.

To be honest, if character animation was a priority for the Vue developers, then imo it would have a proper interchange for it already (FBX, or a plugin for Maya, more than likely). I was under the impression that the usual workflow for Vue (in production) was to export it's lovely nature scenes to Maya, XSI, renderman etc., not the other way around.

In any case, I believe this is what the messiah promotion is all about - getting exposure for messiah as a destination application, not merely an animator (which it seems to excel at, and already has a good reputation for).

For me, it's nearly the best of all worlds, as I was considering having another crack at character animation, and this was putting me off some other apps that already had a ~$1000 buy in (like modo). Add in a vray/ renderman-esque renderer, nodal materials and, for me, it's potentially awesome. I'm still going to use truespace, but perhaps not as much (although for me lately that's been zero for 3d in general, sadly).

For others, I suppose this offer isn't as ideal. However, even if I wasn't going to use this app, I would be tempted to throw them some coin for the sheer audacity to drop a bomb like this ....... Who knows, if it's successful, maybe other companies will do the same thing?

I'm sure Marcel is a big boy who can make up his own mind.

I wasn't the one trying to sell/unsell him, dude.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to cause any offence, it's just that saying that an app can't do something, when the truth is clearly otherwise, is always going to be red flag on the internet.....

Anyway I think I'm done with U3A,.

Bye!

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 13 Feb 2011, 02:30

Anyway I think I'm done with U3A,.

Man, wait a sec.... you aren't leaving just for this! You gave your opinion it was a little wrong, maybe Benji reply too harsh, but hey... he didn't meant to make you leave.

We want you here, I want you here, don't leave.

froo · Post by **froo** » 13 Feb 2011, 02:32

Mmmm I need my IK fix!

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 13 Feb 2011, 02:32

collada has been a huge disappointment from my perspective.

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 13 Feb 2011, 02:55

Man, wait a sec.... you aren't leaving just for this! You gave your opinion it was a little wrong, maybe Benji reply too harsh, but hey... he didn't meant to make you leave.

I wasn't trying to offend anyone, but to be honest I'm not too worried if I did. We are men, after all......
In any case, I've never been banned from a forum for upsetting anyone. Perhaps something to add to my bucket list.

Ironically, yesterday I found an interesting discourse from one of the messiah guys about why he gets work from nothing more than internet exposure here:

http://www.eggswhyzed.com/#category6" .

I guess now I now where I've been going wrong.

richlevy · Post by **richlevy** » 13 Feb 2011, 03:04

As for collada, I agree with James, I am sorry I pushed so hard for Caligari to adopt the format, it has just not picked up as the standard that I had hoped for... Some programs use it others do not, and they all seem to have different levels of support.

The plugin mentioned, is that FastMDD? It works in Modo, I think it works in Lightwave and C4D, though I am not sure. MDD format is a vertex caching format used by almost every software package, except TS. If you wantit to work, someone has to write that one. I can provide the format specs if anyone wants them.

I'm heading back to do some more tutorials, life is too short, and at my age it is getting shorter.

Rich

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 13 Feb 2011, 03:29

It looks like the goal will be reached very soon. Should I download the version 5 at their site or wait
until they send me an URL? Can I download the program without the key ahead of time?

Hopefully Nigec you will reconsider your choices.

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 13 Feb 2011, 03:51

I downloaded the commercial version, simply because I wanted to avoid frustration if their servers become a smoking ruin once the offer is finished. You can get the paid for version here:

http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/downloadFull.html"

That said, you still have to get the dongle license activated - I think this may take some time.

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 13 Feb 2011, 03:51

Steinie wrote:It looks like the goal will be reached very soon. Should I download the version 5 at their site or wait
until they send me an URL? Can I download the program without the key ahead of time?

Hopefully Nigec you will reconsider your choices.

You can download the program but won't do any good until it's released to you.

This pops up and they won't give you a number until this deal is done, I think.

http://img7.imageshack.us/i/licensecreator.jpg/"

Binds the license to the drive I think.

JimB · Post by **JimB** » 13 Feb 2011, 07:24

jamesmc wrote:
Steinie wrote:It looks like the goal will be reached very soon. Should I download the version 5 at their site or wait
until they send me an URL? Can I download the program without the key ahead of time?

Hopefully Nigec you will reconsider your choices.
You can download the program but won't do any good until it's released to you.

This pops up and they won't give you a number until this deal is done, I think.

http://img7.imageshack.us/i/licensecreator.jpg/"

Binds the license to the drive I think.

Ha! no small wonder they have to resort to practically giving the program away,you could use it today but tommorow?
I have been reading about the possibility of having to mail sd cards to them for verification in the event that the card should fail,this is all very worrying I may end up selling my licenses (thats if I can).
3D Coat started with an overly secure protection method but due to many objections they came to a reasonable solution.

tylerzambori · Post by **tylerzambori** » 13 Feb 2011, 07:47

I think using something like a dongle is actually very common.
Many major 3D softwares use that method. Like LW and XSI.

You don't see autodesk giving away XSi....

JimB · Post by **JimB** » 13 Feb 2011, 08:11

tylerzambori wrote:I think using something like a dongle is actually very common.
Many major 3D softwares use that method. Like LW and XSI.

You don't see autodesk giving away XSi....

Its not the Dongle method of protection that is at issue here it is the procedure to obtain another key if required due to the failure of the Dongle.

Obviously they don't have to.

Math Path · Post by **Math Path** » 13 Feb 2011, 09:11

tylerzambori wrote:I think using something like a dongle is actually very common.
Many major 3D softwares use that method. Like LW and XSI.

Hehe, I'm user of SolidWorks since 1999. This software was shipped wit dongle until 2007. There are already lots of software emulators, which emulates just dongle attached to the machine. These things are just installed as windows drivers. For hackers it is quite trivial task. In 2007 Dassault Systems went from this approach away. SolidWorks has now sort of online activation and monitoring which prevent really the unauthorized simultaneous usage of the single license. As far as I know 3dCoat uses it too.

RAYMAN wrote

I don't know if Messiah exports Collada since the exporter in the trial is disabled
which is a very strange practice for a 30 days version..... it wont work in 30 days anymore anyways...

Yes, this shows some really unprofessional design of the demo version. It prevents not only usage as production tool, but also prevents users from properly testing the features. In case of import/export capability its often decision making point to judge software as pipeline component.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 13 Feb 2011, 09:19

I felt some friction in recent comments. but it's okay to get angry sometimes. this mean that we are different, complementary and that we defend our views. I prefer that to indifference: the harassment is the result of criticism of something you love. it is not logical: it is only human. Fortunately, people here are friendly.
It was just to say: the bar is about 90% now!

Math Path · Post by **Math Path** » 13 Feb 2011, 09:35

marcel wrote:I felt some friction in recent comments. but it's okay to get angry sometimes. this mean that we are different, complementary and that we defend our views. I prefer that to indifference: the harassment is the result of criticism of something you love. it is not logical: it is only human. Fortunately, people here are friendly.
It was just to say: the bar is about 90% now!

100% agree Marcel.

The most important thing is that we still pushing this funny 'progress bar' together with much commitment in the same direction

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 13 Feb 2011, 12:40

Dongles are pretty common, but I too have always really disliked them. Though I certainly understand the need to protect software in this day in age. In fact, I'm finding myself learning some security techniques to use with my own games that I'm working on. That said, I have the philosophy of "keep it simple". No matter how hard you try, people will crack it, so it's best not to make your paying customers jump through too many hoops.

This is a large part of why I believe most applications will move to the cloud in the future. You'll pay a subscription and log into a website to use software. From the developers viewpoint, this is heaven. Everyone is always working with the latest version, it's easy to track usage and hunt bugs, it's more secure since it's a web based service, and it only needs to be developed to work on one system (the server). It's a ways off yet, but I do believe most PC's will evolve into little more than terminals that access the internet.

Anyway, predictions aside, the folks at pmG are pretty reasonable. I haven't had any issues, but as others have mentioned they're willing to help you out. If this influx of users draws harsh criticism of their licensing model, I wouldn't be surprised to see them adopt something simpler in the future. In other words, they're not out to screw folks over. They are animators that work in the industry themselves, so they're likely to be reasonable about issues that arise.

W!ZARD · Post by **W!ZARD** » 13 Feb 2011, 12:45

This has to be a no-brainer - $40.00, even if you only spend 4 hours playing with it and then remove it from your machine forever you've paid $10.00 per hour. That's cheap entertainment and education in anyone's terms. Try finding as movie theatre where you get entertained for ten bucks an hour!! The more you use it the better the value is.

Re the Collada thing - from what I read you can save Collada meshes from Messiah but not the animation which is a shame as I originally wanted to us tS for the original modeling, Messiah for the animating and Vue for the rendering but from what I've seen there does not appear to be a direct export path into Vue. Even so the Messiah renderer looks pretty damned efficient and is apparently very fast.

I suggest it's also useful to remember that you would generally build an animated scene differently to a static scene - lighter geometry with excellent displacement for the fine detail, instancing etc. .... unless you are wanting to single-handedly animate the armies of Mordor the approach to an animated scene is quite different. You might render a background sequence in Vue or tS or whatever and add animated characters to the scene using composition tools and "green screening" type approaches to get the final result. Animated movies are often built up in layers like Photoshop or The Gimp.

Sounds like another learning curve but also like a LOAD of fun!

Great to see so many folk buying into this........

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 13 Feb 2011, 13:00

I think that the reason that messiah has a hardware lock is because Lightwave (for which it was once a plugin), unless I'm mistaken, has always had them. And so their traditional users perhaps don't have a natural aversion for them.

Personally, the chances of my internet connection going down is possibly hundreds of times greater than my USB stick dying (I've only had it "suddenly" happen once, and I flog them). So the cloud idea, or the requirement of an internet connection to start my app, isn't too appealing.

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 13 Feb 2011, 13:07

Benji wrote:Personally, the chances of my internet connection going down is possibly hundreds of times greater than my USB stick dying (I've only had it "suddenly" happen once, and I flog them). So the cloud idea, or the requirement of an internet connection to start my app, isn't too appealing.

That right there is the reason I think the cloud is a ways off yet. The internet needs a bit more speed and stability. That will come in time though.

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 13 Feb 2011, 13:15

For Vue users perhaps there is another way. On the Setup tab site there are some tutorials for importing images to use as a background plate for compositing with messiah animations.

http://setuptab.com/index.php?action=st ... view;id=57"
http://setuptab.com/index.php?action=st ... view;id=60"

Not the ideal solution, but perhaps something to consider.

That right there is the reason I think the cloud is a ways off yet. The internet needs a bit more speed and stability. That will come in time though.

Well, if it's cheap and doesn't involve me doing anything, then I have no objections......

froo · Post by **froo** » 13 Feb 2011, 15:09

Well, regarding a dongle, I have an ethernet cable, headphones, and a mouse cable all connected to the laptop. A dongle isn't going to hurt. Same for the PC. Hey for $40 I can live with it. If the dongle breaks I will have to deal with it, just as I would have to deal with a hard drive tanking on me.

EDIT:

HEY W!ZARD! Great to see you here buddy!

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 13 Feb 2011, 15:32

Hi i just got another licence it moved the bar by 2%

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 13 Feb 2011, 15:35

pugman 1 wrote:Hi i just got another licence it moved the bar by 2%

So I could order 50 $10 licenses and get 100 percent?

froo · Post by **froo** » 13 Feb 2011, 15:36

Well you can only buy 4, mix and match. Dang!

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 13 Feb 2011, 15:38

Maybe the future of protection will be a virtual dongle send by internet when you start the software. if you want to work on another computer then you close the software before you change to another computer and start a new session. it is the same way than to have a real dongle. the advantage is you can't lose your license but you need a connection to start and to close the software (the author of the software need to see if your last session is closed before give to you an authorysation to use his software anywhere you are. in any case a cloud software can be useful for 3d because the need of power can't match with the speed of the internet for many users. i have a 100 mbits connection but i prefer to have my software on my computer without be afraid of a possible problem of connection. A cloud software need to be designed from scratch to be optimized and it is not a solution for most actuals big software. A mix internet/installation on the computer is more reasonable today (as Google earth). When i see the business around the smartphone i think a 100% cloud computer will cost more for we than our actual computer. this is the principal interest for the major companies.

Math Path · Post by **Math Path** » 13 Feb 2011, 15:54

More and more apps are going for some integral online component now to help combat piracy. As having integral online components does eliminate cracked software, as the pirates never receive the executing code, only functions with data in, data out. It's sad that more and more software has to go this way.

If the dongle breaks I will have to deal with it, just as I would have to deal with a hard drive tanking on me.

Very well said. For each SW install in the company, I obtained insurance policy for the full replacement value of the software (It was some thousands per seat) Since Dassault Systems didn't require you to send anything to verification. It was just burned for them.

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 13 Feb 2011, 16:05

Actually, the cloud concept can work great for graphically intensive programs.

Check out http://www.onlive.com" .

They run the games on their servers which have high end graphic cards, then they stream the rendered frames to your computer. So their powerful servers are doing all of the hard computing while your computer simply sends commands and displays the returned rendered frames. This concept could be used with any graphically intensive software. You could have a really weak machine and run powerful 3d software on what are essentially "rented" remote machines. Think about it, all your machine would have to do is connect to the internet and display frames being streamed to you. Let them spend all of the money on powerful hardware.

I like to own software too. I think we are all pretty used to that. I do feel this will shift in the future though since cloud apps have so many more advantages for both users and developers. Users get portability, instant upgrading, and access to machines more powerful than theirs. Developers get some security from piracy, only have to develop for one specific platform and hardware setup, can easily update the app and instantly propagates to users, easily collect statistical usage date, etc. Seems like a lot of advantages for the cloud. That's just my opinion anyway.

ruscular3d · Post by **ruscular3d** » 13 Feb 2011, 16:39

I ask PMG if school teachers could order more than 4 if they want to use PMG in school labs, and they approve that!

trueBlue · Post by **trueBlue** » 13 Feb 2011, 19:26

Question:
Is Fori Owurowa @ pmG the same Fori Owurowa who developed MetaNURBS(TM)," the real-time conversion of polygons to NURBS surfaces?

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 13 Feb 2011, 19:41

Yep! As I understand it, he developed several tools for LightWave. Even messiah studio started out as a LightWave plug-in. That of course is why it's always played well with LightWave.

trueBlue · Post by **trueBlue** » 13 Feb 2011, 19:43

Thanks Dele!

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 14 Feb 2011, 13:55

This is an interesting read.

http://www.3dworldmag.com/2011/02/14/pm ... io-project"

richlevy · Post by **richlevy** » 14 Feb 2011, 14:14

Délé wrote:This is an interesting read.

http://www.3dworldmag.com/2011/02/14/pm ... io-project"

Well, that basically confirms some of the things I was guessing, based on the things I read over at SetupTab over the 24 months. It may be done today...
I am also in the group that upgraded back in November/December, I was not too hopeful that I would get anything back, it does not sound too promising. Not a biggie thogh, in the end, this is a better solution for the software, which means more users, more information, more tutorials, and a cooler forum to hang out in.

I gotta get going to work.

Rich

BooxieMalone · Post by **BooxieMalone** » 14 Feb 2011, 19:07

Hey what's happening here? I'm away for a few days only and the whole bunch is bailing out to desert from ...

Well, let me share my approach in this matter. Long ago I had sworn, I'll never be going to buy any piece of software again, which is dongled to a machine, to a drive or something else. When I started sequencing in the mid 80s there haven't been much options in choosing adequate Midi equipment. The number one that time was Twenty four, later Cubase for AtariST (that had a midiport & dongleport). These were dongled from beginning like quite a lot of other ST-Software too. As being seriously involved in music, there was no way to do without. Since then I'm dongled to Steinberg. Since then I hate dongles. Not only can they make troubles, whenever you don't think of and whenever you are in a pressure of delivering results. Also, if not locked heavily can they "get legs" while you're absent or just inattentive. Not mentioning all those other problems arising with aging, corroding & too much plugging in appearence of software hang-ups or total crashs. Formerly we were used to the common Atari-Bombs-Problem, which let us loose quite a lot of hard work ... and nowadays ... DDoS & server downs ... luckily things have changed a bit and there is a wide range of tools available without these chains, even lots of free tools to choose of.

So I'm sure, I don't need to join the actual buyin/sellout (denoting the end of pmG?). Especially not in view of my installed base ... just have to learn to use more than a tenth of my tS including a good hand full of capable renderers, which I partly only know by name till now. And when I look at the galleries of the concerning websites, I know there is no need of possessing another software, there is the only need to learn to know my stuff and if done so and then I'd come to a deadlock, I could think of something else ... But also in aspects of my other heavy software load, I think I'm full with what I have already and I'am not able of grabbing much more into my head.

Though I have to admit, this is still a very attractive bargain and I closely was up to buy me a license, even renewed my papal account for that yesterday ... and slept it over ... Today luckily I've cured this heavy virus!

Must say heavy dialectical virus! Just payed the chart ... pro

(... last one ... no, not really, just kidding ... but honestly I can resist! ... sometimes!

)

|--------------------------------------------------------> ~94% est.

Regards
-BM.

BooxieMalone · Post by **BooxieMalone** » 14 Feb 2011, 19:16

@marcel:
Hi marcel, I read about your question upon >>> SD-Cards <<<.

If not already said by someone else, please be aware that this small protection-slider edgeways on SD-Cards is
>>> NO REAL PROTECTION !!! <<<
Although 'Secure-Digital-Memory' might suggest kind of this. The simple slider is only a piece of plastics, not able to protect anything. It works only as a kind of a heads up for the hard-&software to notice the users request for protection.
The only dependant part in line is your cardreader (or -stick). Look at the specs if it is able to recognize and to dispatch the "protection", otherwise it will simply write "through" respectively "over".

I'm going to take an unused 16MB spare SD (from an old digicams content) only for the dongle file, nothing else on it. Additionally gonna store a copy of that file onto two external backup-media, so I can restore the file if it was accidentially damaged. No need to reformat this SD forever - only read out/nothing written. Hope the file is not too big and will fit on it?

I'm not quite sure if the cardreader itself has any influence on the drive ID. I mean, if this eventually could be changed while keeping the same SD-Card. Perhaps sombody is able to clarify this? Thanks.

Regards
-BM.

froo · Post by **froo** » 14 Feb 2011, 22:03

Man. 93%. hehe I imagine, that they could always 'adjust' their target as the bar progresses. Mo Money Mo Money Mo Money!

So.

When they reach their target, I wonder how long it will take for them to distribute emails for folks to register. And,
is the registration process to receive the license automated? I hope so; otherwise, man that's a lotta work for those guys!

BooxieMalone · Post by **BooxieMalone** » 14 Feb 2011, 22:42

I think it'll be no prob for them, to send an email with a license to every new customer. This could be done automatically, because they already got done all addresses and email contacts with the completed forms of purchase. The activation of licenses is assumedly no problem either, 'cause customers are spread all over the world and will ask for their keys surely at different times.

I hope they not change their mind going to make their target floating and become dreadfully greedy ...?

-BM.

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 14 Feb 2011, 23:14

Unless I'm mistaken you actually generate the license yourself, using an app they provide for you.

I hope they not change their mind going to make their target floating and become dreadfully greedy ...?

Heh, well the progress has stalled a little. However, this may just mean that they got the target more or less right when they were creating the offer.

It was interesting in the 3dworld article where the founder said that they planned for the offer to take months. That really wouldn't have been a very good outcome imo, the current frenzy has been the viral version of a superbowl ad.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 14 Feb 2011, 23:49

Hey I think that green bar is elastic! The further to the right it goes the more it gets pulled back!

I bought another Pro version just in case...
My thought is 5 years from now I can't live without Messiah
and the Company disappears (the owner retires/quits/deep 6) just as my thumb drive decides to become a door stop.

The good news?..we got Dele back!!!

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 14 Feb 2011, 23:51

You generate a key for your USB device, email them the key, then they send you a license (just a small txt file). I don't know how much of the process is automated, but either way I'm sure Paula will be busy dealing with all of the licensing issues this week.

As for the bar, it slowed over the weekend. The internet always crawls on the weekends. It's picked up a bit again today. It seems to be moving about 1% every hour or two. I would be surprised if there wasn't a surge of last minute buyers trying to get in before the end here too. I have a feeling it will wrap up within the next 24 hours.

v3rd3 · Post by **v3rd3** » 14 Feb 2011, 23:54

BooxieMalone · Post by **BooxieMalone** » 15 Feb 2011, 00:10

ooops,
watched it moving up one step ...
now I know, this must have been you Steinie - how many Pro's did you order?

Yeah, maybe it's elastic, but I recognize some acceleration ...
maybe the managers applied the emergency brake?

-BM.

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 15 Feb 2011, 00:58

I bet they started the poll set at -100.

froo · Post by **froo** » 15 Feb 2011, 03:52

hehe 96% now!

When it hits 100% of course, remember; there's a *** Rounding error *** which means, well, maybe a couple thousand
purchase need to be made to get over that hump. hehe yeah that's an exaggeration. But still... I bet it will just HANG there,
for awhile, for suspense. Or maybe, hang at 99% to get the laaaaaast drop out of that turnip.

ruscular3d · Post by **ruscular3d** » 15 Feb 2011, 04:12

Yes I suspect that because this is a special they were counting on milking for 3 month!

Well I was wrong the goal is met and they extend the offer for another day.

tylerzambori · Post by **tylerzambori** » 15 Feb 2011, 07:16

Yay they extend it until tomorrow! Now I can be crazy and buy 4 licenses
and give one as a gift too.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 15 Feb 2011, 07:26

This offer will offically close in an estimated Hours:15 Minutes:33
"Due to the overwhelming response, we are in the process of updating the license system to better automate the management of everyone generating their licenses. We have a 3 day delay in finalizing the transactions, and downloading them into the system. We hope to have license generation up by Saturday or perhaps sooner. You will be getting an email to the email address you provided paypal when you purchased, that will contain the url and login info to generate your license for your purchase or purchases(if you did them in more than one transaction)."

tylerzambori · Post by **tylerzambori** » 15 Feb 2011, 07:34

"PROGRESS BAR
This offer will offically close in an estimated 24 Hours : 25 Minutes : 24 Seconds
to allow for people who had trouble connecting or ordering. See bottom of page for ordering."

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 15 Feb 2011, 07:40

your counter is broken: not 24 it is 15 right now.

tylerzambori · Post by **tylerzambori** » 15 Feb 2011, 07:46

weeelll......clock on:

http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shop.html"

and see....

the page is till alowing purchases.

and now it says:

24 hours 13 minutes

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 15 Feb 2011, 07:54

curious for me it is 15 hours and 6 minutes. for me it is 9 hours less.
ha ok! i think it is a problem of timezone! Europe is always ahead of the usa!

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 15 Feb 2011, 10:02

On February 14th 2011 the goal was met.

More info at the Website.
They wanted to make licensing easier or something, guess their marketing was a huge success.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 15 Feb 2011, 12:21

Thank you RichLevy for letting us know about this deal. A lot of the U3DA members took advantage of the offer. It will be interesting to see what we do with Messiah and how we utilize the application in our work-flow.

Math Path · Post by **Math Path** » 15 Feb 2011, 12:41

Just for sake of clarity. The clock runs until February 15, 2011 23:59:59 UTC

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 15 Feb 2011, 13:52

Yes. Thank you RichLevy for letting me know about this deal. When you type 'messiah" on google there is a lot of pages about this challenge now. i hope to install this soft next week when they will be ready to give the license.

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