United3dArtists Archive

Jimmer: "In fact, my tS6.6 is a LONG WAY from dead.... I will drag that app.
bit by bit as far into the future as possible."

The best way to keep TS 6.6 or modelside for a long time is to keep a computer with XP and use it only for TS. Microsoft update the security of XP until 2014. But if you use this computer only for TS, you don't need internet and avoid problem after this date. you can keep TS for many years until your computer dead...
All you need is another computer to use futur soft and OS.

marcel wrote:Jimmer: "In fact, my tS6.6 is a LONG WAY from dead.... I will drag that app.
bit by bit as far into the future as possible."

The best way to keep TS 6.6 or modelside for a long time is to keep a computer with XP and use it only for TS. Microsoft update the security of XP until 2014. But if you use this computer only for TS, you don't need internet and avoid problem after this date. you can keep TS for many years until your computer dead...
All you need is another computer to use futur soft and OS.

My suggestion would be to make a virtual computer for this use since you could move that to several physical hardware setup without the XP virtual machine noticing. Also note that Microsoft promise security updates to 2014 but how long after that will they allow activation of XP? This is of course not an issue if you use an version of XP without activation or never reinstalls it. This is why the virtual computer with XP is a good thing, you could simply keep a copy that you reverts to when the copy you run daily becomes "clogged" and slow like XP tend to become after some years.

first: Virtual computer maybe wrong for a 3d soft, due to the bad power of the videocard simulated (a s3 trio). Your video card don't work on the virtual space.
second: Even if Microsoft shuts off product activation, the hacker community will certainly make dozens of tools to let you continue using XP.

it is why i prefer to use and keep a computer only for TS with only all that TS need and no more (with problem).

marcel wrote:first: Virtual computer maybe wrong for a 3d soft, due to the bad power of the videocard simulated (a s3 trio). Your video card don't work on the virtual space.
second: Even if Microsoft shuts off product activation, the hacker community will certainly make dozens of tools to let you continue using XP.

it is why i prefer to use and keep a computer only for TS with only all that TS need and no more (with problem).

Dont you think that over the years the whole software market will advance and that there will be even more modern posibilities then a then decade old software
has to offer? maybe at some price point but we will have realtime with global illumination etc.
Truespace works for now and lets see what happens in a few years time.......
Progress doesnt stop !
I had a DOS 4.01 machine 23 years ago do I still use it ?

RAYMAN wrote:Dont you think that over the years the whole software market will advance and that there will be even more modern posibilities then a then decade old software
has to offer? maybe at some price point but we will have realtime with global illumination etc.
Truespace works for now and lets see what happens in a few years time.......
Progress doesnt stop !
I had a DOS 4.01 machine 23 years ago do I still use it ?

You can use a DOS machine if it is your pleasure. Why not? people like old plane or old car. They know it is not for their job. They use old machine for pleasure and have a modern machine for their job.
you are right but i said about the best manner for Jimmer to keep TS for some years and avoid problem. even if progress can't stop, some people want to keep their soft and we can help them. Between a DOS caveman and a geek there is a place for most of we. I think there is not a lot of real geek. most are fashion victim, more eternal dissatisfied than passionate. Marketing know that! most important is to have the pleasure to do something, not the manner.
it is best to strike a balance between time for learning and time to create. both gives me pleasure but if the balance is broken, I may have no more pleasure. I work on computers for 36 years but I took 30 years to master this balance. The next big change will probably cloud computing and it will be more difficult to control the way so we want to change because change will be imposed.

Agreed... My concern, just for NOW, is compatibility with Win 7. I have
encountered some problems, so far (mentioned earlier) with Win 7 and tS6.6.
Like I said as far into the future as possible...... A duel boot system with
an XP partition or just an XP sys. would probably be the best solution.
Nothing is forever... I still think about my Amiga from time to time...
VideoScape/Modeler, LightWave and all the other 3D packages that got
their start there..... The future (for the most part) will be real time.
Caligari with tS7+ got an early start in this direction. Others will
continue..... But, it's always nice to be able to go back, even for a
short time...

Sometimes I need to forget the progress. not because I'm against it, but to know what I want to do. to know who I am. be sure that progress does not dictate to me what I should do. what kind of things that we don't care when we are young. the current pace of change does not really like this kind of reflection.
dual boot is a good solution. 2 computers is better for the futur because you could have a problem with TS on XP boot if you want to update the hardware later for seven. It depend on how many years you think to use TS. new soft will work better with new hardware and you will have to do a choose between TS and the others soft if all your softs are on the same computer.

Don't understand the use of tS6.6. Load up tS 7 (it is/was free!) turn off the bridge and enjoy the same core code as 6.6 but with a few tweaks, prettier interface ( ) and HDRI.

I agree. No problem for the old archive. modelside read very well the 6.6 scn. just remember workspace don't like nurbs and can crash. modelside+bridge off=6.6+hdri.
if you use only modelside, i recommand 7.6 (7.61 have problem with modelside)

I think we dont need to look for other
programs , the things trueblue and clintman
are doing is awsome work ,soon we have ts8

pugman is kinda right. They are great persons but just two, caligari had an team of developers and we will make progress much slower than them and nobody is going to join they, sadly.

I doubt it's possible to develop truespace more slowly than Caligari did. It's pretty obvious that third-party developers and dedicated users have been carrying this app for many years. Things haven't really changed all that much.

Caligari had "mostly" stoped trueSpace development further back than most
of us realise. The work being done by some of the members of this
community is nothing short of fantastic !!! This work will keep tS going
for some time. (MS releasing the tS source code could keep our tS
going indefinitly...) Which really should be our goal too. Even if WE
don't code many others do and I'm sure someone some time would
eventually stumble across tS and get and idea or two or three ect...
As for my attachment to tS6.6... Model side in 7.61 is very buggy and
I don't have 7.6. Although, the 7.6 Model side might be better the
WorkSpace side ins't as good as 7.61. Having 3 versions of the same app.
seems a bit much. I like the interface in 6.6 the layout goes all the way
to the edges of the screen. It's got a smaller foot print and mostly
works. To be honest, I'm considering replacing tS7.61 with the 7.61
stand alone. (They really should be separate apps). Although, there are
reasons not to also. If only someone could of gone in and fixed
7.61 ModelSide before it was released...

leonregis wrote:pugman is kinda right. They are great persons but just two, caligari had an team of developers and we will make progress much slower than them and nobody is going to join they, sadly.

First:
Caligari had not a big team, they had the code source. Coders can add only plugins but the soft can't be really updated like blender. How many new functions we have since Microsoft stop TS? do we need to install them one by one to have an "update" of TS? It is for 7.6 or 7.61? where can i find a package for all with info? we need a control for all this thing if we want new users. that is the goal of open source team. but we have not that possibility.
Second:
The lack of code source is not an enormous problem if we have only one version of TS to "update". with modelside, workspace 7.6 and workspace 7.61 we have 3 softs with incompatibility for many thing. It is too complex for 99% of new users. 5 millions download of TS and no new users since Caligari forum? you have the answer: The community can't grow. i think it decrease.
I prefer to use TS without dreaming of "update" until i find new soft to replace it entirely. it's time to have pleasure to create.

The community can't grow. i think it decrease.

What an understatement. A handful of guys are left from 4 million downloads. Shrinking ^^

marcel wrote:

leonregis wrote:pugman is kinda right. They are great persons but just two, caligari had an team of developers and we will make progress much slower than them and nobody is going to join they, sadly.

First:
Caligari had not a big team, they had the code source. Coders can add only plugins but the soft can't be really updated like blender. How many new functions we have since Microsoft stop TS? do we need to install them one by one to have an "update" of TS? It is for 7.6 or 7.61? where can i find a package for all with info? we need a control for all this thing if we want new users. that is the goal of open source team. but we have not that possibility.
Second:
The lack of code source is not an enormous problem if we have only one version of TS to "update". with modelside, workspace 7.6 and workspace 7.61 we have 3 softs with incompatibility for many thing. It is too complex for 99% of new users. 5 millions download of TS and no new users since Caligari forum? you have the answer: The community can't grow. i think it decrease.
I prefer to use TS without dreaming of "update" until i find new soft to replace it entirely. it's time to have pleasure to create.

There´s alwys the second option to still use Truespace as it is now and supplement it with features from the outside....
Frootee did that with the fluid importer from Blender....

I prefer to use TS without dreaming of "update" until i find new soft to replace it entirely. it's time to have pleasure to create.

I totally agree with you Marcel. We can forget Microsoft to make TS opensource. In the first place I wonder why they bought it. What was their plan?

This is an old discussion and everyone keeps coming to the same end. This is how it is with TS. Unless Microsoft decides to rebuild it TrueSpace is gone. It was a great tool that is still for the moment a useful one.

The thing that is worth saving is this community. I used Ts for years and never posted more than a few times in the TS forum. I learned from the manuals PDF and printed also by purchasing some of the tutorials. Since the closing of the official TS community message boards prodigy and a few friends have made this place to try and keep it alive.

If you are want to save the software I would say you need to work a deal out with MS and purchase the rights to develop it. In what case you would most likely need to scarp the whole thing and rebuild it. This would be the same as starting from scratch so the only thing you would gain is the use of the TS name and an example the framework it was built on. If you don’t have mega capital like myself then you might just want to support this new United Artist community made up of homeless TrueSpace users.

In short just support the people that are left and build on that. And don’t Worry be Happy!

Yes it is an old discussion, again and again. But yet hot!
It seem the subject was not exactly what we discuss...

Anyway, I am happily learning Sketchup and all it's little quirks and I am attempting, as we speak, to order a Vray educational license for just $225. Have you seen the quality of renders produced with it?

Wow!!

Splinters dont forget to look into the sketchkation site. Theres a ton of plugins there that let you do a lot more then with the barebone software(most of them free).
theres even plugs to make sds modeling.Lots of what you see on the render sites is made with these plugins like soap and bubble.. !
Peter

DanX wrote: If you are want to save the software I would say you need to work a deal out with MS and purchase the rights to develop it. In what case you would most likely need to scarp the whole thing and rebuild it. This would be the same as starting from scratch so the only thing you would gain is the use of the TS name and an example the framework it was built on. If you don’t have mega capital like myself then you might just want to support this new United Artist community made up of homeless TrueSpace users.

In short just support the people that are left and build on that. And don’t Worry be Happy!

I wonder what MS would like to have for the Truespace source code? And which source are we talking about? I am quite sure that MS has no interest in the old model side code - what they bought was the workspace code. I am however more interested in the modelside. The problem with modelside is however that it is tied to Lightworks and because of that it has a big, huge license issue.

Personally I think it would be more feasible to recreate a TS UI on the Blender source code with the new UI model they have from 2.5...
What I loved about TS was always the interface - the program was actually quite buggy and unstable...

Agreed that the TS interface is great. It is easy to use compared to some other 3D programs. Of course different people will like different interfaces and tool sets.

I like TS and will use it while it still works but I'm not going to any extended effort to keep using it. I'll put that effort into getting and learning another program. I'll get something, Blender because it's free I guess, and start learning it soon. When TS is too troublesome to keep using I'll stop using it.

I don't understand the obsessive desire to keep TS going. Don't you think it would be easier to learn Blender than to create a TS interface for it? You'd have to learn a lot about Blender's UI and API or scripting to do that anyway.

Finis wrote: I don't understand the obsessive desire to keep TS going. Don't you think it would be easier to learn Blender than to create a TS interface for it? You'd have to learn a lot about Blender's UI and API or scripting to do that anyway.

I don't think that I can create this UI. What I said that I think it would be better to use for instance Blender as a base for a Truespace UI than trying to get hold of the Truespace code.

What I liked about TS was as I said the UI. Learning an UI takes a while. I am sure we all can learn Blender. However, in my opinion the interface of Truespace is simply much better than Blenders. So it feels a bit like a step down to learn Blender, to go backward so to say.
I think what we all would love is a software with the ease of use of the TS UI but with a future. So in a perfect world we could have that software.

I don't really have an obsessive desire to keep TS going. However, as I happened to like the UI I will continue to use it as long as feasible. Of course I know that I someday will have to switch. My hope is that we at that day will have a software that continues where TS left us - with a simple to use interface that actually was easy to learn. Blender 2.5 is big step forward in my opinion from the old interface of 2.49. However, it is still not on par with what we had in TS.

Splinters should do the design of Blender Buttons.

leonregis wrote:Splinters should do the design of Blender Buttons.

Strange you should mention that...I was actually contacted about it but, as it is open source and freely contributed to, there was no 'work' as such and at the time I had no free time to commit. However, now I might be interested....

Great.
If I had the idea why they wouldn't? Your quality of work worth too much in the UI of a app, that would bring a great thing to Blender. It's a non-brainer decision.

Thanks

Finis wrote: I don't understand the obsessive desire to keep TS going. Don't you think it would be easier to learn Blender than to create a TS interface for it? You'd have to learn a lot about Blender's UI and API or scripting to do that anyway.

I think the main thing that keeps many of us hooked into TS is the familiarity with the tools it has and having experience using it. It is also hard for the many who saw themselves as part of the ongoing growth of TS to simply let it go.

I think many of us bought not just the software, but the promise of what it could have been which is an even more difficult thing to let go ... the strength of one's conviction. This is what makes the state of TS when it was discontinued such a personal disappointment and such strong fuel for many to keep working at TS or with TS, or both.

I think the universal message amongst everyone here is to use TS for what you can. If you need a professional toolkit then you must prepare to use other software that will evolve with future operating environments.

The great truth is that no single piece of software will do everything a 3D artist demands of it. TS is one of many tools to have in your repertoire.

Since I will likely never upgrade from XP (:D) I will continue to use TS for some time.

I agree about the motivations to keep TS V3rd3. Much of that is my own motivation to continue using it for some time. (I paid for the upgrade to 7.5.) Nothing wrong with continuing to use it while you can. Yes, as part of your tool kit. But accept that one of your tools is obsolete.

What I wonder about are the more extraordinary efforts, happening or suggested, to fix or upgrade it, make TS-like interfaces for other programs etc. The level of effort being devoted to that is strange. If that makes any individual happy then great. Realistically it is time to learn other tools and prepare to remove TS from your tool kit, sooner or later.

I liked the possibilities for TS also. The high speed rendering of workspace was appealing to me. I'd like to make some cartoon animations (my elf movie). Imagine what the gpu raytrace and GI appearing now would have been like in workspace!

Our attachment and fondness for TS, mine too, is fine but we must accept the reality that TS is going away. That is why Splinters started this thread. He isn't necessarily dumping TS now but he is being realistic about what he needs to do for his future.

Getting Sketchup and VRay is a nice combo however the free version of Sketchup doesn't export in OBJ format. I wonder what the thinking was there.
Hey every piece of software we add to our tool set gives us more options. I don't plan on replacing trueSpace just supplementing it. As time goes on it might become less important but I have no plans ditching this very nice piece of software. To be honest I love learning new things so this is addition not subtraction.

Steinie wrote:Getting Sketchup and VRay is a nice combo however the free version of Sketchup doesn't export in OBJ format. I wonder what the thinking was there.
Hey every piece of software we add to our tool set gives us more options. I don't plan on replacing trueSpace just supplementing it. As time goes on it might become less important but I have no plans ditching this very nice piece of software. To be honest I love learning new things so this is addition not subtraction.

No but the free version Of Sketchup exports with Collada and also works with the render engines and you can also import without limitations.

Oodles of plug-ins for Sketchup including an OBJ exporter...

Finis wrote:
What I wonder about are the more extraordinary efforts, happening or suggested, to fix or upgrade it, make TS-like interfaces for other programs etc. The level of effort being devoted to that is strange. If that makes any individual happy then great. Realistically it is time to learn other tools and prepare to remove TS from your tool kit, sooner or later.

I think there is a lot of wishful thinking that would see the positive aspects of TS appear in other products. Writing a TS-like interface for Blender is certainly possible for those with the skills but the motivation for them to do so is not clear at this time.

Finis wrote:
Our attachment and fondness for TS, mine too, is fine but we must accept the reality that TS is going away. That is why Splinters started this thread. He isn't necessarily dumping TS now but he is being realistic about what he needs to do for his future.

I agree we all need to cast our vision with a broader net and that obsolesence is an inevitable part of the "circle of life".... (apologies Walt...). Let'a all enjoy each others company and support while we can.

First render with Vray in sketchup (only been using it properly for a day). Needs a lot of work but considering I am buying this to enhance student work, I think it will work out very nicely.

Oh, here is the native Sketchup model.
Damn, I haven't been this excited about a piece of software since Beta testing tS7. Suits my need and those of my students (i.e. being free!) perfectly.

splinters wrote:Oh, here is the native Sketchup model.
Damn, I haven't been this excited about a piece of software since Beta testing tS7. Suits my need and those of my students (i.e. being free!) perfectly.

http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/s ... t=sketchup"
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/s ... t=sketchup"
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/s ... t=sketchup"
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/s ... t=sketchup"
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/s ... t=sketchup"
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/s ... t=sketchup"

I hang my head in shame for not heeding your tips earlier...but I was pretty preoccupied with tS7 back then. Only just had the time to explore Sketchup.



...oh and my Vray receipt has just arrived....now I need the office to open so they can send me the license and link.

Looking forward to experimenting.

splinters wrote:I hang my head in shame for not heeding your tips earlier...but I was pretty preoccupied with tS7 back then. Only just had the time to explore Sketchup.



...oh and my Vray receipt has just arrived....now I need the office to open so they can send me the license and link.

Looking forward to experimenting.

No problem Paul ! If you need any help with finding some plugs or anything just PM me... there´s a lot of cool things that the SKP community made around !
Peter

New soft available on january 2010 (organic, fractal,...)
http://www.neuro-systems.com/

Hey trueSpace can do this!....
The rendering on the left not the right hahahaha

http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/s ... stcount=20"

for those who work with shetchup:
http://www.reallusion.com/iclone/3dx.asp
text from the site:
"iClone 3DXchange is a conversion utility along with offering an unlimited content generator for iClone moviemaking. In iClone 3DXchange 2, partnering with Google, Reallusion enabling users to build any models from scratch by Google SketchUp and collaborate with the largest 3D asset resource, Google 3D Warehouse."

less than 70$. you can use a trial version.
but what i don't like is you need to become a member to use it. tired to become a member anywhere.

Steinie wrote:Hey trueSpace can do this!....
The rendering on the left not the right hahahaha

http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/s ... stcount=20"

Eurrrgh! Who is the guy on the right....certainly not me...

Left: an alien before he becomes a human (right). Be vigilant.