United3dArtists Archive

Hello all,

Here is a discussion I had with Weevil now, it's really cool and I would like to know what do you think.
We started talking about his dream of be a pilot of air force, then...
A lot of grammar errors from me sorry.

Steven = Weevil
Soundwave = Me


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Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*Su-35
*Su-40
*Su-37
*Mig-29
Steven diz:
*my most recent model...su27
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*Brazil bought some Su
*if I remember well
*37
*I don't know why Brazil is getting armed
*:(
Steven diz:
*they need to be
*every country needs to be armed
*even Switzerland is as well armed as the UK
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*well I hope humans someday wake up
*maybe one more millennium
*if we last
Steven diz:
*it seems like its getting worse, but actually its the opposite, fewer and fewer people are going into military services, and therefore when the army is seen, its seen as a massive deal, and what with more news coverage on just about everything, a mugging in London is front page news alongside 20 more people killed in iraq
*we're just not used to harsh realities
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*yep that's true
*but it's just the beginning
*when robots start working
*I would like to do an animation
*really cool
*about something
*like a near future
*with war
*but then I would do it alone
Steven diz:
*i do have one perfect example to disprove the whole "robots will take over the earth" thing
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*nope
*what I'm saying
*is that robots will take over the earth by the command of humans generals
*understood?
Steven diz:
*again, not necessarily true
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*just for who don't want to see
*why not?
Steven diz:
*here's my example, planes, airliners can fly themselves
*they can take off, and and fly better than any human could
*but the reason we still have pilots is, would you get in a plane where you knew there was no-one sitting up the front?
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I didn't understood the last phrase
*sorry
*explain
Steven diz:
*would you get in a plane that you knew was just being flown by a computer
*and there was no pilot in the cockpit
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*maybe... not in the start when they are testing the tech, like now... but in the future
*will be normal
*but that's not the point
*I mean for military means
*would you give your life to kill machines instead humans?
Steven diz:
*no, thats why humans will get in there first
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*nope
*machines go
*kill all
*the humas
*then humans settle down there
*machines would be used in situations there casualites would happen
*then the enemies just killed another machine
*produce another one
*and the people keep working and happy
*but the ''enemy'' don't
*maybe because he is crazy
*or because he has water, oil
Steven diz:
*the situation you are describing is a superpower versus a developing nation
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*nope
*China vs USA
Steven diz:
*then why does the other side not have robots as well
*you have described one side with robots only
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*because the americans are a bit forward the tech
*they have 5 generation planes
*and anyone else does
*they have predators and others too, but years ago not
*it's a cat and rat
*and the rat is the USA
*I'm not cursing
*just sayind that he is always in the front
*and others trying to follow
*that's not a rule, but most happens this way
Steven diz:
*there will not be a robot war, if it is a robot war, it will be robot vs robot, but theres no point in that, because the problems are the humans commanding the robots
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*if robots are used in a war would be robots vs. humans
*brb
Steven diz:
*sending robots to make war is pointless, it just makes factory workers happy boys
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I'm back
*but then one of the countries will lose all their resources and factories
Steven diz:
*robots are only tools, someone has to control them, example, a jet
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*and will start fighting with humans
*yep that's right
*but the AI
Steven diz:
*so the robots will not be there on their own
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*some yes
*but at leats they are machines
*you can destroy a machine, but then you build another
*a person needs to be born, study, trained
*etc
*if you kill persons with machines
*then you are winning
Steven diz:
*i'm curious as to which point you are driving at thuogh
*you say using machines is a bad thing because it kills people
*yet...so does fighting with people, kills even more people
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*that's true
*but the side that has robots will win
*and then if they are fighting for a bad porpouse?
Steven diz:
*"bad" is subejctive
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I'm not english, don't know much about it
Steven diz:
*bad is a matter of opinion
*depends on the person
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*etically bad
Steven diz:
*this "bad cause" is a bit of a loose argument, because a superpower does not invade for the sake of it anymore
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*but would invade to stand their position as superpower
*then would be a bad porpouse
Steven diz:
*not really
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*they are being selfish
*taking from others
Steven diz:
*let me ask, do you honestly believe that a superpower is goign to do just that anytime in teh future?
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I want to make clear that I'm not saying that is happening now
Steven diz:
*invade like its from a movie or game?
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*it could happen
*if not military
*but attack somehow
Steven diz:
*the world is very political now
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I agree
Steven diz:
*its far more stable than it has actually ever been
*military force is used as a final option, it is the age of the balding fat man with big words, not the person who shoots first
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*because we are in a ''gold age''. No lack of resources, population high but not so much, space for all
*this things are ending
*what will finish the stabillity of the system
*system = world
*then those fat man can't win money anymore
*because there will be problems
*economy recession
*well
*future seems to be a bad place to be
*but I have no choice
Steven diz:
*brb
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*because of that I would to follow political carrer
*try to make it better
*a better place for next generations and even for us
Steven diz:
*okay i've pieced a few things together here, especially after reading what you said about wanting to be born a few generations back in the 60s and wanting to get it all in young
*in the 60s, people assumed we'd be flying hovercars by now and that hitler the third would have been back and destroyed the world
*the main reason the world is overpopulated is purely because of a simple factor, we breed, we've evolved to enjoy sex (teenagers), new technology means better medicine (saving people)
*which has a few overtones of iroy
*irony
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*speculation by political actions... here is speculation by facts, there will be no space for everybody (superpopulation), less water, petroil crises, climate changes
Steven diz:
*that was inevitable
*always will be
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*but then there is no reason to do war
Steven diz:
*ironically, another war will decrease the population, and will most likely the cause of the next population decrease
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I know you would say it
*but then there is other ways
*like education
*things that are already going on
*in china
*in development countries
Steven diz:
*and how would you pay for all of it
*where will your funds come from
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*we don't need to kill, just don't born
*founds that would go to do war
*:)
Steven diz:
*so you've spoked your own wheel
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*what it means?
Steven diz:
*you've just kinda won my argument for me
*created a catch 22 (lose no matter what)
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*won your argument?
*I need to do english classes, learn it doing is really hard
*explain like you are explaning for a baby what you said above
Steven diz:
*maybe i need to add brazillian to my list of languages
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*nope
*has no future
Steven diz:
*basically, you've jut said you would go to war to teach people not to go to war
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*xD
Steven diz:
*just
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I said it?
Steven diz:
*more or less
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I said that I would use the war money to educate people to be sustentaible
*like have less kids
*and consume less things
*I said it
Steven diz:
*yes but thats like opening up a new burger king everytime someone dies of over eating
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*no
*it's like open a school to teach that over eating kills
Steven diz:
*no, you would go to war and kill people so you can get money for hospitals (which will be bloody needed in war) and contraception to stop people having kids, in war, everyone wants more soldiers, in short, everyone will be wanting more kids
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*but I said that I would use the money for war to do schools and hospitals and teach the right way to live... so how could I do a war without money?
Steven diz:
*exactly, so why not use the money and bypass that war
*but, where will you get the money, because all war funds go to the war affort, nothing else
*effort
*so youre back to square one even if you go to war
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*but there will be no more war so no more war affort... and the money that go to the war that came from the citizens I'll just give back in education health and a better life, a sustentaible
Steven diz:
*except when you're not in war time you don't GET that war money
*you need to think about health services, police department, peace time military forces, natural disasters, prisons, schools, public buildings
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*yep
*but today
*we are in war time
*and still are doing all those things
*if there is no war time
*the money that goes to war time
*will go to those things
*to all
*but part of it
Steven diz:
*no, extra money gets footed to pay for war, nothing else, there is no left over money eve
*r
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*because the war suck money from others areas
*war money aren't just war money
*they kind catch a little
*from others areas
Steven diz:
*omitting, thats why we had rations and so on, but i think you missed my point
*if war doesn't exist there would be no such thing as a war fund, so there'd be nothing to get extra money from
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I know... but the money that would go to the war fund go to other areas
Steven diz:
*that war money is generated
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I know...
*but not all of that money
*even when USA wasn't in war time he spend more than 20% in military things
*research
*training
*soldiers
Steven diz:
*and you suggest removing that military funding?
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*yep... but world isn't ready for this
*so I'm talking that we need to do it
*and stop doing war
*to then don't need this funding
*understood?
Steven diz:
*except that will not happen
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*will happen... I said that I expect for the next millenium
*but can happen really fast
Steven diz:
*actually i read that you thought we'd all be dead by then
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*if the humanity see that all of our intersts coincide
*yep I said that if we last to the next millenium
*it's a possibility that we will not
Steven diz:
*you do know what retains peace right?
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*but we can
*fear of the war? That's why the WWI happened... they thought that the arming would bring peace
*but just brought a big war
*I'm totally against war
Steven diz:
*i kinda figured
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*but I agree that sometimes we need to do... but then I would not start a war just continue
*and try to finish[
*not destroyng the enemy
Steven diz:
*and to finish it you need to fund war and have better technology, like robots
*or you get defeated
*and everyone's killed
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*right the point
*but if I try to avoid war
*I can make my country properous
*prosper
Steven diz:
*i'm seeing someone who has an idea of how the world should work for the better, but you're forgetting that a decision like that must be unanimous throughout the entire world
*and to do that, you must bring every nation up to the same level
*like what we're trying to do in afghanistan, we're removing the wrong occupying forces, the taliban to retain order, then we are trying to develop that country
*that is the ultimate goal
*something like what you propose suffers really really terribly from "the chicken and the egg" syndrome
*no start, and no end
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*again I must say, I'm not saying that they are doing wrong
*I'm saying that if we don't do it
*there will be wars
*for control the last resources
*that are ending
Steven diz:
*actually not really true
*we are developing many new resources
*nuclear fission
*infared panels
*they can be ready within a couple of years
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*but we still drink water
*and cut trees
Steven diz:
*water will not end
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*eletricity may not be a problem
*water will be yes
*desalination is to expensive
*just really rich nations will do it
*and then will be wars
*we need to start living in a sustantaible way
*a way that makes we last more than now
*and definitively war isn't this way
Steven diz:
*you know the way to do that? remove overpopulation, and REDUCE the quality of life for the big countries like UK and USA
*because if you plan on making the quality of life better for 3rd world countries, you're creating america 3 times over
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*kinda that... isn reduce the quality of life... is live in the right way, and the consumption way that 1rd wordl countries are doing is destroy the planet even that the 3rd world countries are suffering, so if you want to that 7 billion live... you need to do it right
*ah and over population need to be controled
*china did it
*1rd countries are doing this even if they don't want
*the problem is others like India, Brazil, Africa, etc
*why ONU hasn't a fund to take care of it?
*and if they do, why 1rd countries don't help
*will be better for them
Steven diz:
*you can't just create money, it'll mess up every economy
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*no create money
*but pick the money
*and invest in the right things
Steven diz:
*do you really think theres the money to spare?
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*if they stop buying a new cellphone just because it has a touchscreen or it's the last version
*there will be
Steven diz:
*that will not happen
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*it's just a question of way of life
*but needs to
*or we will destroy ourselves
*not with war
*but with dump
*lack of resources
*and maybe war because of it
Steven diz:
*but with no resources we go back to a primitive state, no money, if we want to go to war we will go to war, what people don't realise is you can still punch someone or smack them wit ha rock, war is inevitable, our countries are just more diginified versions of animals marking their territory
*there will always be conflict, even over who sat in a chair first
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*but we are inteligent enough to solve our problems other ways, because exist people who can do it... but the majority don't are this way
*conflict are a natural thing, but how many times we try to control nature in our benefit?
*why not control this one?
Steven diz:
*because it's not possible, something will lose out
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*it's just a choice, but they prefer to still strong and dominating ...
*no
*they just don't want to divide the pizza
*there is pieces for everybody
*nobody will lose
*if nobody wants to win
*understood?
Steven diz:
*there are, but dividing it equally means that there may not be enough to go around
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*education
Steven diz:
*you cannot force someone to be smart
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*but we can make him force himself
*building schools
*making they g
*go*
*studying
*like today but amplified
Steven diz:
*england has education where you must attend until you are at least 16
*america, that age is 18
*it does not mean, that you will spend those 18 years learning
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*it's a law, if you break there is rules... of course it will not affect all population, some will runaway but if we attend 90% the world will be much better
*Brazil is 18 years but there is no school to everybody
*so many don't go
*and that's because we are a 3rd country
*England the rates of students are above 90% right?
Steven diz:
*yes
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*and I bet that the population of England are slowly growing or even decreasing
Steven diz:
*no, its growing
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*not so much
*how many?
Steven diz:
*immigration
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*0,5
*because they want a better life
Steven diz:
*and we can't provide that
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*if there is equal in all world why should hey change?
*if we all want
*yes we can
*but we want to save our asses
Steven diz:
*no, britian can not provide it
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*no
*I mean whole world
*if the whole world wants to make a better world
*we will
Steven diz:
*but the whole world doesn't care, sad fact of the day
*it cares through "charities" and "live aid"
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*so... if there is a president who cares like me (Or anyone else who wants) then we could
*isn't?
Steven diz:
*but he gets cuaght up in internal affairs
*i'd like to finis hwhat i say without an interuption so i can explain this fully
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*what?
*finis?
Steven diz:
*finish
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*ah
*go
*then will be my turn
Steven diz:
*each country is caught in its own cycle, it needs to sustain its own economy and its own way of life first, it can only feed small amounts, the whole world will not move in unison ever, because the reason humans have got this far is independant thought
*, however noble your vision is, we are not a hive mind, you are actually bordering on fascist methods, MAKING people be smart isnot possible, in this day and age freedom is everything, and when you're free, the factors you argue do not come into account
*the reason many try to help is through their own thoughts, trying to spoon feed someone something that they are not used to and do not like the sound of will not work, they will rebel against it more, leaders have to please the majority, so if they say "everyone does charity work now" they must back it up
*they must have a logical reason and it must not damage the country, because then another party will come in and use that as an oppurtunity next election
*you are saying everyone should help like it's a possibility, it is not, because everyone does not think the same, we are not uniform
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*can I talk now?
Steven diz:
*feel free
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*^^
*kinda enjoyng this
*isn't?
Steven diz:
*actually i am as well, been ages since i've been able to do this sort of thing
*as a politician, you will go for bloody miles
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I like discussions
Steven diz:
*PROVIDIGN you argue for the right things, argueing this as an end goal won't work
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*do this sort of thing what?
Steven diz:
*this sort of discussion
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I think a lot of people are able
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*is just say what do you think
*I think just you have another vision
*and I'm trying too show mine to see what do you think and argue agaisnt it, since our visions are opposite
Steven diz:
*i haven't shown my vision yet
*i'm merely arguing the plot holes in yours...my vision is strictly neutral
*as with every subject that is not to do with me personally
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*in fact seems that you think that the world already is good and he needs to stay this way
Steven diz:
*i didn't say that
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*you make it clear that today we are stable
*and you said that humanity can't change
Steven diz:
*i said the world won't change becase the methods you propose are purely hypothetical
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*so much
*so please show your vision
Steven diz:
*my vision?
*nah
*i don't have one
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*you just follow the flow?
*of course you have one
Steven diz:
*i follow logic, whether i like it or not, the "greater good"
*don't confuse greater good with ideal world, if it means we have to go to war to stop another fascist state, that is the greater good for example
*outcomes and situations before people and feelings
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*so as I said before you like the way the world is now, because he is the ultimate stable logic the way it is now
Steven diz:
*its not stable, certain countries are, but the whole world isn't
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*and as you say, can't be
Steven diz:
*correct
*doesn't mean i like that
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*do don't like but agree
*because is logical
*for logical is what keep us alive
*foe me*
*for*
Steven diz:
*don't know how many times i've heard people say i'm purely logical
*don't like it but agree
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*that's not logical
*if you don't like
*you shoundn't agree
Steven diz:
*i was quoting you
*not saying my opinion
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*ah
*but the way you said
*seems that is true
Steven diz:
*i have that affect
*and THAT is something i'm happy with
*i'f rather see the truth and be unhappy than be happy with a lie
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*I like to see the truth and try to change the way I want to be, and then I'll be happy and try to make everyone else happy
*that's not a lie
*but is a goal
*but for you is unreachble
*unreachable*
*maybe it is
*because of our nature
Steven diz:
*maybe not
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*because we are logical beings
*because we need to be logical to survive
*our because being logical we live better
*or*
*so my last conclusion is that I'll try to make it better, not better for me... but generally better, ie, for some it will be worse
*we are reaching critical times
*that we need to do a choice
*we can't keep living this way
*we need to change
Steven diz:
*you do know the choice will be "survival of the fittest"
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*and is in these times that humanity evolute
*evolved*
*I know? I think is a possibility and the way things go will be
*but if we change now
*will not
Steven diz:
*many still don't believe in global warming
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*maybe isn't truth... I believe but even if isn't... you want to live in a world which factories pollute the skies and there is no trees anymore, just in parks like central park... the water is scarce, rivers dry because of pollution, the hunting of fishes to eat kills many species and crops needs to be genetically modified to stand the acid rain, polution and low water?
*surely you don't want this
*and all of this things would happen within or withour global warming
*without*
*so if global warming is truth, is just another big problem coming in high speed to our faces
Steven diz:
*what i meant is how can you expect the world to change when many dont believe there is a problem
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*showing another problems that people cannot say that isn't truth
*like everything I said
Steven diz:
*many believe its not truth because they dont want to see the problems
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*but then, they know that there is problems...
*they close their eyes
*but know that if they open the problem will be there
*so you need to show that we can solve those problems
*if they open their eyes
*and start working agaisnt it
*and it is completely logical... which isn't logical is fight for the last resources because you make this happen
Steven diz:
*well, when you've found a logical solution that plugs any plotholes and is completely doable, ill back it, until then, i make do with the affect i have on the people immediately around me
*but, its 1:40 in the morning, i think i need to go to bed now
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*ah I liked a lot this discussion
*Thank you
*but let's now keep in mind those projects


After some minutes:

Steven diz:
*somehow, no matter how absurd what i say is, it's still logical and correct regardless of personal feelings, and you can't really say logic is wrong
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*that's kinda right, the problem is that this isn't logic at all is rationality what envolves social contact, logic is what is better and rationality is what people think is better since the environment they are
*and this is true
*a human try to be logical
*but normally he don't
Steven diz:
*thats evolution getting in the way
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*when we be really logical
*then we can call us, evolved
*we are just building the street to the logical
*since the first Australoptecus
*because of that I think that someday everything I said will happen
*but it can be just 1000 years ahead
Steven diz:
*it will, but not the way you imagined it, or all at once
Soundwαvє ▼ Thє Envoy of Chαos diz:
*yep
*that's right
*I'm also not perfect
*too far from perfection
*nobody is perfect
*because of that we form teams
*to then pick every lack of perfection and fill with other person who has that ability
*so I'll post it
*Good Night
*Happy new year
*Prosperous New Year (Better saying)


So what do you think?

"you cannot make a poor person rich by making a rich person poor."

You can make everybody middle class if you give opportunity to poor persons that hadn't like riches had.