United3dArtists Archive

Hi Friends,

Is there somewhere I can get a list defining Materials/Shaders...etc...? From toying around on modelside, I'm just beginning to get what the different channels do...bump/color/reflectance, etc...ws side is a different animal altogether, seems some have two or more channels combined into one.

In either WS side or Modelside, when I have something in mind of how I would like the surface of an object to look, (for a simple example the slightly bumpy surface of an orange) I'd like to have an idea where to begin looking for the type of materials I'll need. (while sifting through all the materials I'm familiar with, I see alot of "plastic" & "metal", and most of the basic "texturebumps" have lines running through them....(wouldn't want to bite into a metal orange!)

Other than "transparacy", "translucent" or "glass" and of course "colors" (which are terms I'm familiar with), I'm seeing terms like "anisotropical map", "feeder GPU_gooch", or "phong". Whenever I ask a question of what I should use on a particular object, someone just tells me, "oh, just use the "phong"....ok...how do you know that's the right one? Guess I'm just looking for some descriptive meaning for these unusual terms, and also, what type of objects they are commonly used to texture with.

If I may humbly request.....could someone please come up with a video tutorial in the future on the ins and outs of how to properly use the ME in Workspace side? I've had some success with it from info I've gotten from older tutorials, but I sometimes run into enough difficulty working with it that I've actually gone backwards and beginning to learn modelside just so I can see all the channels side by side, which I guess is not a bad thing if it helps clarify some things. Thanks in advance!

Musikman

Hi Musikman,

Have you read the trueSpace 7.6 manual yet? Chapter 5 on Surfacing on the Workspace side has a lot of information. The coverage of DX materials begins on page 44. Tables of predefined shader components runs from page 157 to 162. You'll see several sections in the tables dealing with phong lighting.

It's a big chapter (187 pages) with lots of good information.

Best regards, First Light

Hi First Light,

Thanks for the reply & the tip.....I actually did read through ch 5 in the manual awhile ago when I first installed TS, but I guess at the time I wasn't ready for it, and didn't make it to the end where it describes a few of the components of the shaders. Still a little over my head but at least it's a start! Not sure I understand where the listed attributes fit in yet, still plenty of unfamiliar terms there also, but I'll read through it & I'm sure I'll get something from it. A good portion of that chapter runs pretty deep through the LE functions, which is a bit confusing to me, at least for now. I'll try to follow the tutorial there, but I usually get lost when I get too many layers down into the LE, I'll give it a try, never know!

Best Regards,

Musikman

Hello again,

Don't forget Google. I find it helpful when I need a definition for a word---even a technical world. Just type "define: " and the word and it will search for definitions. For "phong" it finds:

phong: (1) In POV-Ray, a bright highlight on an object caused by light rays hitting directly from a light source. (2) A shading term used indiscriminately to describe both an illumination model and an interpolation method in 3D computer graphics.

I agree, the trueSpace manual can be a bit overwhelming when you're getting started. In a former life I used create tech manuals (I managed a small in-house publishing department at a high-tech manufacturer in the pro audio industry). And, no surprise, I'm one of those rare individuals who usually reads manuals.

The Caligari staff went to a lot of trouble to create their PDF manual for trueSpace 7.6 and it is an excellent resource. Sadly, they chose to distribute it piecemeal as individual PDF chapters. There is no common index (not even an index for each separate chapter). Plus, it is difficult to search for keywords when you're new and not sure which chapter to look in.

I'm tempted to combine all the capters into a single volume and add an index. Even if I didn't have time to create an index, just having all of the chapters in a single file would greatly facilitate searches. But I'd need someone to host it so it would also be available to others---I live in a rural area where high-speed internet is not yet available (I have to use a satellite connection). Plus, we'd need permission from the copyright holder (Microsoft and Caligari) to redistribute it.

If enough people were interested, we could even have it printed (again, if we could get permission). I know of a few print-on-demand outfits that would do it in small volume. It won't be cheap. There would probably be a one-time setup fee of US$1000. Then the manuals would probably cost US$20-25 each. We'd need to get enough people to commit to buying a printed manual to cover the setup fee. For example, if we expect that 50 people will buy a manual, they'd each pay US$20 for 1/50th of the setup fee plus US$25 for the manual, itself, for a total of US$45. If we could get more than 50 people to buy one, we could divide the setup costs over a larger group and reduce the price for everyone. It's an idea.

Call me "old fashioned" but I still prefer having a printed manual in my hands. Another possibility would be to port the manual to the Amazon Kindle electronic reader. But there are two big negatives to this approach: (1) the photos will not translate very well and, in my opinion, they're very important, and (2) the Kindle is expensive.

Best regards, First Light

Hi First Light,

Google is a great idea, never used it quite that way before, will try it out, thanks!
I agree the printed manual in hand is nice to have, but sounds like a considerable cost. Maybe we can save having to go that route.....Here is a "manual index" post by Clintonman (link below), but I won't have time to try it out until later or tomorrow. If you end up trying it before I do, let me know how it goes! I've read lots of audio software manuals, it's just that 3D is new territory for me, and the terminology has been a bit of a thorn now and then.

Clintonman's Index for the TS 7.6 Manual:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/s ... ostcount=1"

Best Regards,

Musikman

You will find Clintonman has an index available to all for TS 7.6..... you can download it here ....http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/s ... php?t=5824

Just installed Clintonman's Index and it's easy to install and works great!

Hey v3rd3, thanks for making the link more visible, I had mine in the wrong place, fixed now. I also added a thread to the Tips/Links forum so hopefully it will be easier for everyone to find over there. I wish I had that index from the beginning, can't believe it, wow what a difference!!

Cheers!

Musikman

Glad to help....

The short answer is that there isn't a short answer....

To some extent, it depends a bit which render engine your using as some shader types aren't available with some engines, whereas some shader types are available for lots of render engines.

I'm only really familiar with Lightworks on the Model side, but in that instance (and I assume elsewhere) Phong is just a fairly standard reflectance shader that can be used as a reasonable approximation for a very wide range of materials due to the various attributes than can be adjusted.

What shader to use for what real-life material is a huge challenge and requires a lot of experimenting with your engine of choice - I've been at it for years and only getting there slowly! It's something I've asked about before too, and usually get the answer 'depends...'!

If you are working with a specific engine, might be worth saying so that people can point you towards the most useful advice - e.g. Yafaray willb e very different from LW or real-time/DX. Similalry, using HDRI with lightworks requires some special adjustments too. There's an older 'masters course' video course on the Caligari site which covers materials too, which I think is for LW renderer/model side - haven't been through it yet myself.

Thanks Nez

If you are working with a specific engine, might be worth saying so that people can point you towards the most useful advice - e.g. Yafaray willb e very different from LW or real-time/DX. Similalry, using HDRI with lightworks requires some special adjustments too.

I haven't purchased any engines, just have whatever came with TS76, just LW I guess. Texturing definitely usually gets a "depends..." answer, I can understand that as there are so many choices to go about getting similar results. In my wip "pool ball practice" I did the ball texture in gimp, but it's just a flat color, no bump needed. When I begin adding other objects I'm going to have to tackle the surfacing choices & continue experimenting.

Best Regards,


Musikman