United3dArtists Archive

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 30 Nov 2009, 11:38

HI ALL , i think i have found a better way to reset le.
if you move something its a mess the way to reset
is change from 2d to 4d and then back to 2d, if you open
things in le do the same as above and you have what you
changed. you must do this every time when its a mess.
hope you understand ,
Good luck Ralph

froo · Post by **froo** » 30 Nov 2009, 14:37

Thanks Ralph.
I have a laptop with Windows 7 on the way.
I'll give this a go once it arrives.

froo

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 30 Nov 2009, 16:04

No prob hope this helps others to
still a pain but wortks

trueBlue · Post by **trueBlue** » 30 Nov 2009, 16:39

Here is the commands to switch from 4D to 2D.
Should work in any docked or floating Link Editor.

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 30 Nov 2009, 16:52

Hi TB just tested the refresh window thing
sorry it does not work

froo · Post by **froo** » 04 Dec 2009, 02:32

I will have to check this out. The laptop is all setup now.
I did see the same issue.
If the LE window is minimized then reopened it gets refreshed as well.

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 06 Dec 2009, 13:07

Hi Froo , how are you getting on with
windows 7 and the new laptop.
I think we need a couple of good
scrypters for the problems but they need
to have windows 7 to see them

froo · Post by **froo** » 06 Dec 2009, 13:23

well I saw the problem. But I have not messed with it yet.
I'd like to see the LE issue resolved for sure, if possible.

What are the other issues?

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 06 Dec 2009, 13:28

I have probs with edit in 6.6 and model
with the render not so good .and some edit probs,
workspace ok
I think the more you test the more you wil find

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 19 Dec 2009, 22:49

Hi there,

I've have been working on my own LE fix for windows 7. It's not perfect, but I thought it would be nice to share it.

There is some flicker in the linking wires, connection point on the LE panels, and navigation box in the bottom right, but it's just about useable if you can live with the flickering.

Here is a link to it: http://www.dawdolman.com/LinkClick.aspx ... d&tabid=64

Let me know how well it works, or does not work on your machines,

Best regards,

David

clintonman · Post by **clintonman** » 19 Dec 2009, 23:27

Works here. Only thing is if I try to navigate so all the nodes are below the LE view they just slide back up into view. So if a node is high up in the view it is difficult to get to it. Other than that, nice work.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 19 Dec 2009, 23:29

thank dawdolman for your help and welcome. i have not win7 to test all the problem but it seem we discover different problem each day. I am not sure to buy the new OS before a few month. The best OS for TS is XP with my old computer. Just a question: the problems seem to be a problem of refresh with LE. Maybe the same problem with edit in modelside (?) (pugman post). Maybe it is not win7 but the new driver of the videocard? A problem inside the code of TS would be very difficult to resolve without the source and it would be the near end of Ts. It would be useful to know the card and the driver used for each problem.

clintonman · Post by **clintonman** » 20 Dec 2009, 00:52

I don't think it's a video card problem. I've seen the same problem on 3 different machines with 3 different video cards. Nvidia and Ati.

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 20 Dec 2009, 01:42

Hi again,

The problem does seem pretty odd, and unrelated to graphics cards / drivers. I would guess this is a bug which is not visible on XP/Vista systems, but with some changes to the Windows API in Windows 7 it is now causing a problem.

As far as I can tell it's a problem with the TS code for handling WM_ERASEBKGND messages in the LE.

My solution was to find the LE window, and then draw a rectangle over it, and force it to repaint. Something interesting is just sending the window the WM_PAINT message won't re-draw the linking wires. The only way I have found to redraw the linking wires is sending the WM_MOUSEWHEEL event to the window. This is causing the issue Clinton described where when you lots of stuff in the LE editor it will scroll down to the bottom of the view. I’ll keep poking it to see if I can work out what’s going on inside the window and find a better way to get the linking wires to re-draw. Unfortunately without inside info on how TS is coded it’s not easy.

David

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 20 Dec 2009, 01:50

Here is an update that should fix the issue where the editor is continually scrolling down.

http://www.dawdolman.com/LinkClick.aspx ... d&tabid=64

David

clintonman · Post by **clintonman** » 20 Dec 2009, 07:50

Just tested and that works better.

This now qualifies as the best solution to running le in win7. I do see a slowdown when opening and closing 3d and le windows. The whole thing pauses for a second while closing them. I wonder if the high frequency of redraws is slowing it down. Can you make a version that updates at something like half the speed?

Edit: I might be wrong about the slowdown. I just did some more testing and the pause when closing 3d and 2d windows was much less. My system must have been doing something the first time I tested.

Edit: More testing shows the pause/slowdown is an intermittent event and also can happen when minimizing or restoring a window.

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 20 Dec 2009, 11:27

Thanks for the feedback Clinton,

I've adjusted the refresh time from 20ms to 100ms, the trails are longer, but the speed of the flashing looks a bit better on the eyes. Let me know how the performance looks at your end.

Here is the updated DL link: http://www.dawdolman.com/LinkClick.aspx ... d&tabid=64

Cheers,

David

froo · Post by **froo** » 20 Dec 2009, 13:38

Excellent solution dawdolman!
Thank you so much for fixing this!
I just purchased a laptop with win7 recently. Good to know I can use trueSpace
with it now.

Froo

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 20 Dec 2009, 13:43

i have a question , how do i install this ,thanks
Thanks for sorting this prob

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 20 Dec 2009, 16:25

When the best work-around is found please make this very important
thread a sticky!
Fantastic work guys!!!

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 20 Dec 2009, 17:10

clintonman wrote:I don't think it's a video card problem. I've seen the same problem on 3 different machines with 3 different video cards. Nvidia and Ati.

I have a problem of refresh on a notebook with Vista. it is because my driver is too old and can't be updated. why not a similar problem with a win7 driver too new for a soft not updated?

clintonman · Post by **clintonman** » 20 Dec 2009, 17:16

This last version is easier on the eyes and I isolated the apparent pauses to custom toolbars. If you drag out buttons to create custom toolbars, these are the elements that are disappearing intermittently when closing or minimizing windows. I think the slow down in the refresh helped. When it does "pause" the pause seems less now than before.

clintonman · Post by **clintonman** » 20 Dec 2009, 17:19

pugman 1 wrote:i have a question , how do i install this ,thanks
Thanks for sorting this prob

from my website

.... Manual Chapter 2 pg 161-162

Video: Indigo script and plugin setup tutorial. 2.4Mb, wmv, 3:15
http://www.clintons3d.com/plugins/vids/indigoSetup.wmv"

part of the video shows how to install an rsx plugin

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 20 Dec 2009, 17:38

For anyone unsure on how to install the plugin I have written a very short guide on how to installing it:

http://www.dawdolman.com/GamesDev/TrueSpace761.aspx

Thanks Clinton for your Video Tutorial, I guess you posted it while I was writing my documentation.

David

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 20 Dec 2009, 17:54

marcel wrote:
clintonman wrote:I don't think it's a video card problem. I've seen the same problem on 3 different machines with 3 different video cards. Nvidia and Ati.
I have a problem of refresh on a notebook with Vista. it is because my driver is too old and can't be updated. why not a similar problem with a win7 driver too new for a soft not updated?

Hi Marcel,

I think you have a interesting point there, it might be possible that it is something in the drivers, but my gut feeling is it's just a bug in TrueSpace. I've written a few apps myself that run fine on one OS or set of hardware/drivers, but when you run them on something different there are different defaults and it stops working or does not run as expected. I'll try to run a comparison between running TS on my laptop on XP x32, and on my PC on Windows 7 x64 and see if I can spot any difference in the applications execution, but it's like searching for a needle in a hay stack...

Cheers,

David

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 20 Dec 2009, 20:02

I think you have more experience. I am not programmer since many years and don't have win7 to test. some time the solution is smaller than a needle.

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 21 Dec 2009, 07:51

Hi ,i am so sorry to bug you ,but i still cant install
the le plugin .i know how to install plugins but
this does not show in the packeg maneger.
when i find the plugin right click then it
shows below, then i must click open so it shows
that i can load it ,but it does not show
can someone please help
somtimes i think i am to stupid for this
or my pc has somehting against me
thanks Ralph

froo · Post by **froo** » 21 Dec 2009, 11:29

Hi Dawdolman. Which version of Visual Studio did you build this with?

Pugman: If the answer is Visual Studio 2005, you need to get the vcredistx86.exe for VS2005.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en"

If the answer is Visual Studio 2008, you need to get the vcredistx86.exe for VS2008.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en"

Here is the Visual Studio 2008 SP1 redistributable, in case you need it:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en"

Froo

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 21 Dec 2009, 11:38

Thanks Froo,

Yes it is missing dependencies. Can you try installing the following and let me know if it fixes it: (Visual Studio 2008 SP1 redistributable)

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en

Cheers,

David

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 21 Dec 2009, 11:46

Thanks so much works perfect

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 21 Dec 2009, 12:17

Hi one thing i found with the Visual Studio 2008 SP1
is that my pc is alot slower ts has a big delay ??

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 21 Dec 2009, 12:37

it only slow my pc down when trueserve or true space is running

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 21 Dec 2009, 12:47

pugman 1 wrote:Hi one thing i found with the Visual Studio 2008 SP1
is that my pc is alot slower ts has a big delay ??

Hi Pugman,

I expect it's just when the plugin is running it's having a bit of an adverse effect on performance. Can you let me know how many cores your PC has? I have been testing this on a quad core system, so it's hard to tell what the performance impact is like.

Also to confirm that it is just a problem with the Plugin just unload it in TS, and see if performance returns to normal (you might need to re-start TS after unloading the plugin). I'm not familiar with using TrueServe, does it load the same plugins you specify in TS?

I think this performance issues is the same that Clintonman described as a pause that sometimes happens when toolbars got re-drawn?

I'm working on a different less aggressive way to try to erase the background, no promises though.

Regards,

David

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 21 Dec 2009, 12:53

Hi dawdolman, i have quad core q8300 2.50ghz
64 bit win 7, geforce gt 230, 6 gig ram

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 21 Dec 2009, 12:58

Sorry me again, ijust installed this from foos list Visual Studio 2008,
seems to be ok now

thanks so much for your hard work on this matter
NICE ONE

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 21 Dec 2009, 13:07

another test, with le closed or in
4d ts is running at its normal speed.
so only open le when you need it

froo · Post by **froo** » 21 Dec 2009, 14:29

Welcome dawdolman! Good to see another plugin developer here!

Question. Does the LE refresh every 100 ms? It sounds like the message is sent about
10 times per second to refresh the LE, when in fact, most of the time, the view will remain
static. It may be worth experimenting with setting the refresh time to 1000 ms (1 second) or more.

Or, do something similar to what trueBlue did: use a button to allow the operator to refresh the window.

Or better yet, when the user releases the left, middle, or right mouse button, when the mouse pointer is within a LE window,
Then and only then, redraw the LE.

Also, please keep in mind that there may be more than one LE window open at any one time. So the active LE window
(the one with the focus) has to be identifed, and updated.

Very cool to see the activity!

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 21 Dec 2009, 23:55

dawdolman wrote: I'm working on a different less aggressive way to try to erase the background, no promises though.

OK I've finished baking it, and it's done ready for more Beta testing. I was not sure this was going to work at all, but it looks promising so far. Anyway for those that don't want to know any more and give it a try; here are the links.

Download Link: http://www.dawdolman.com/LinkClick.aspx ... d&tabid=64

Installation Instructions: http://www.dawdolman.com/GamesDev/TrueSpace761.aspx

If you are interested to know how it works, I'll start at the beginning with the problem in TS and explain the solution (keeping away from code talk as much as possible)

As far as I can tell the bug is in TrusSpace 7.61 in its handler for messages telling it to erase the background of the LE Window(s), for example when a object on the LE window is moved, the area where it used to be needs to be erased. We can only guess at what in the TrueSpace source code is causing this problem, and to fix it we really need the original source code, or MS to create an update for TrueSpace.

How does the above work then? The TrueSpace SDK does not provide the functionality needed to implement a fix without re-writing the LE from scratch (as far as I could tell....the documentation is not complete, but it's better than nothing so I'm not complaining about it). So the best way I could find was intercept the Window API message telling the LE link editor to erase it's background, and drawing a white square on the LE Editor to manually erase it upon the interception of each erase message.

To do this the plugin is split into two parts, the rsx, and a second dll that gets stuck in your system32 directory. All the plugin does is load and sit there waiting to see a LE window, as soon as it spots one, it installs the dll's hook function and tells it about the window type is needs to look out for to catch the erase background message that need a little "extra" processing. After which point any erase background messages to any LE window will result in the background being re-drawn with a solid background before any further drawing takes place on it.

....simple! sort of.....

It's not finished yet! Post back all the problems you have with this latest copy..., it maybe only works on my computer

.....

Best Regards,

David

PS

I would like to say thanks to everyone that has welcomed me to the TS community and helped with beta testing my fix. I would be upset if TS disappeared one day, hence I'm happy to do what I can to keep it alive.

trueBlue · Post by **trueBlue** » 22 Dec 2009, 07:15

Just a suggestion if it is at all possible.
Change the flashing "White" color to a color that better matches one of the Link Editor's background colors.
Red = 131
Grenn = 125
Blue = 125

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 22 Dec 2009, 07:39

Thanks allot dawdolman , by me it works sweet
2 ts open le open and every thing runs smooth
flickering reduced to a minimum ,cool dude
i hope you stay with ts

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 22 Dec 2009, 11:55

trueBlue wrote:Just a suggestion if it is at all possible.
Change the flashing "White" color to a color that better matches one of the Link Editor's background colors.
Red = 131
Grenn = 125
Blue = 125

Hi TrueBlue,

I knew that question was coming! I'll see what I can do. The only thing that put me off doing it last night was having to play with it since the link wires are also a Gray colour, and it was getting late. I'll start with your suggestion and go from there. I had a think about trying to blit a texture onto the background...but I'm not 100% convinced yet that it's a good idea. Anyway, when I get some time I will have a play around with it.

Something I'm cautious about is UAC and installing the plugin, has anyone had any problems with installation or running it?

Best regards,

David

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 22 Dec 2009, 15:25

Done, and download updated: http://www.dawdolman.com/LinkClick.aspx ... d&tabid=64

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 22 Dec 2009, 18:21

OK, another update:

http://www.dawdolman.com/LinkClick.aspx ... d&tabid=64

I think that is as good as it's getting...time for holidays.

Merry Christmas Everyone,

David

froo · Post by **froo** » 22 Dec 2009, 18:36

Merry Christmas dawdolman!
And thank you so much for this fix for Win7! You Rock Man!

clintonman · Post by **clintonman** » 22 Dec 2009, 20:39

Just tested the latest one. The word "Outstanding!" comes to mind. Thank you, David.

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 23 Dec 2009, 08:01

Hi the downlosd is a normal exe should i install
this in truespace some where or just hit install?
thanks Ralph

froo · Post by **froo** » 24 Dec 2009, 14:17

Hi Pugman.
Run setup.exe.

This is a Windows Installer executable. It will unpack the RSX file to your
chosen directory. You will have the opportunity to choose the directory
during the intallation process. Once complete, the RSX file is placed in your
chosen directory.

Then you can load the plugin using the trueSpace interface.

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 24 Dec 2009, 14:34

Thanks Froo , i was wondering how ,
great help

noko · Post by **noko** » 25 Dec 2009, 09:24

This is AWESOME and many thanks!

noko · Post by **noko** » 25 Dec 2009, 20:00

Works like a champ!

BadBaff · Post by **BadBaff** » 02 Jan 2010, 17:42

Excellent work Dawdolman, I had the same Link Editor issues. Also had the same Package Manager issue as Pugman1.

All working fine now.

scapino · Post by **scapino** » 03 Jan 2010, 00:56

Great work, Dawdolman!

That fixes the problem nicely!

For those who might wonder how to install it, in the workspace side, open the package manager, and right click to choose install new, point to the rsx file, and the right click on the listed item, and choose "load".

Thats all, works as advertised.

Once again, great work! And a million thanks!

Kurt

DanX · Post by **DanX** » 04 Jan 2010, 12:09

Sorry I missed this thread earlyer. Thank you for the win 7 fix maybe there is hope for TS.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 04 Jan 2010, 12:23

Thank you so much! Now we can survive for some more years!

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 04 Jan 2010, 18:47

Happy 2010 Everyone!

I just wanted to say, please feel free to mirror/re-distribute the fix, and also ask if it would it be possible for an Admin to create a sticky somewhere appropriate to host the fix in case there are others that have missed out on this thread.

Also in case you missed it I did put together some install instructions on my homepage: http://www.dawdolman.com/GamesDev/TrueSpace761.aspx

and to be handy, here is the DL link again to save reading back though earlier posts:
http://www.dawdolman.com/LinkClick.aspx ... d&tabid=64

Thanks all those who have tried it out for your feed back

, give me a shout if there are any issues,

David

clintonman · Post by **clintonman** » 27 Apr 2010, 07:59

dawdolman wrote:... , give me a shout if there are any issues,

David

I think I have an issue here. It seems that the longer truespace runs the slower the plugin runs. It starts out perfect but then slows to a crawl after a bit. It seems to happen after opening a couple of LE views, fiddle around a bit and then open an animation view. Closing all extra LE/Animation views seems to make the problem go away but then it soon comes back because I open more windows.

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 27 Apr 2010, 17:19

clintonman wrote:
dawdolman wrote:... , give me a shout if there are any issues,

David
I think I have an issue here. It seems that the longer truespace runs the slower the plugin runs. It starts out perfect but then slows to a crawl after a bit. It seems to happen after opening a couple of LE views, fiddle around a bit and then open an animation view. Closing all extra LE/Animation views seems to make the problem go away but then it soon comes back because I open more windows.

Hi Clinton,

I'll have a look at it again. I have noticed truespace getting a bit sluggish espically if the Link Editor has lot of object displayed in it. I've been generally only using one LE window...so it might be possable that something is leaking when more than one is open.

Will let you know when I find something.

David

clintonman · Post by **clintonman** » 27 Apr 2010, 19:19

dawdolman wrote:
clintonman wrote:
dawdolman wrote:... , give me a shout if there are any issues,

David
I think I have an issue here. It seems that the longer truespace runs the slower the plugin runs. It starts out perfect but then slows to a crawl after a bit. It seems to happen after opening a couple of LE views, fiddle around a bit and then open an animation view. Closing all extra LE/Animation views seems to make the problem go away but then it soon comes back because I open more windows.

Hi Clinton,

I'll have a look at it again. I have noticed truespace getting a bit sluggish espically if the Link Editor has lot of object displayed in it. I've been generally only using one LE window...so it might be possable that something is leaking when more than one is open.

Will let you know when I find something.

David

Thanks, David
I'll also try to find some way to reproduce the slowdown consistently. It's a little bit on the random side at the moment.

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 27 Apr 2010, 20:24

clintonman wrote: Thanks, David
I'll also try to find some way to reproduce the slowdown consistently. It's a little bit on the random side at the moment.

I've reviewed my code, and found a small memory leak,

I've created a quick fix that you can try here: http://www.dawdolman.com/LinkClick.aspx ... d&tabid=64 I've given it a shot and it seems to work here for me without the memory foot print of truespace increaseing when I'm playing with the LE window. I'm a bit confused on why the installer is 1/4 of the size of the previous one. I'm using VS2010 now, and apparently that installer should include the 2010 runtime...maybe it will get you to download it or something.

I made some other slight other optimisations that I have been thinking about for a while, but they don't have a measurable improvement on the visual performace over what I had before.

Let me know how this one works for you,

Cheers,

David

clintonman · Post by **clintonman** » 27 Apr 2010, 22:54

It's working well.

The install ran without asking for any runtime downloads and I dont get the slowdowns like in the previous version. That was one quick fix. Thanks.

Saul · Post by **Saul** » 17 Jul 2010, 09:29

Hello
dawdolman site seems to be down. Does anyone have a copy of this LE fix for win7?
TIA

dawdolman · Post by **dawdolman** » 17 Jul 2010, 10:03

Saul wrote:Hello
dawdolman site seems to be down. Does anyone have a copy of this LE fix for win7?
TIA

Apologies for my site being down, the host is having a .NET problem or something...

Anyway here is a direct link: http://www.dawdolman.com/Portals/0/down ... up_1_4.zip

Cheers,

David

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