United3dArtists Archive

My nephew who is a senior in High School finally sat down with the viperfish tutorial. He has been on it for 3-4 hours aleady. Seems to be very involved in it. He can draw full length chracters on paper now. I have a scanner to input them into te computer so it is only a matter of getting the proper format and he will pass me.
I told him if he learned to speak english, he could get on th forum and learn from the teachers.

"I told him if he learned to speak english, he could get on th forum and learn from the teachers."

It sounds like he might teach the teachers.

That reminds me something guys!

What you think to create a section for other languages??

What language do you and him speak?

Prodigy wrote:That reminds me something guys!

What you think to create a section for other languages??

If you really want to make this an international community I don't see why you would not....

It does bring the issue of who and how you would moderate the forums.... you would probably need 2-3 volunteers per language to make sure you could keep the new forums up. Would it be a lot of work to support Asian and Cyrillic text?

I don't have any language skills to help ... wish I did...

The Philippines is full of artists. They speak Tagalog. I speak English and about 5 words of Tagalog. They learn Tagalog is school but, never practice it so they forget it.
I may have to make a CD or DVD of Truespace and all the tutorials and manual for them to pass around while it is still available.
Right now, I think I am the only one online from here.
It would be a large project and would keep the busy and out of trouble. It might even give some a new career.

Just a note I'll jump right on behind Prodigy and say "yes to multiple languages sections!" As for Moderation, how many times in the past has this community not been able to moderate itself?

May I make a couple of suggestions about that idea?

I don't mind as long as they don't cross. Many times German was being written at
the Caligari forums in an English site. They have a Forum in Germany for just that purpose.
If the threads here start getting mixed up I'm against it.
Which language would you chose? There are many nationalities using this site you cannot
possibly keep everyone happy.

OK instead let us all speak Mandarin!
1. Chinese* (937,132,000)
2. Spanish (332,000,000)
3. English (322,000,000)
4. Bengali (189,000,000)
5. Hindi/Urdu (182,000,000)
6. Arabic* (174,950,000)
7. Portuguese (170,000,000)
8. Russian (170,000,000)
9. Japanese (125,000,000)
10. German (98,000,000)
11. French* (79,572,000)

I forgot to mention. Tagalog uses the same alphabet. It is a sort of Spanish with the Philippine dialects added in.

Well a very large amount of the TScommunity speak German, while there are plenty of minorities such as Taglog or strangely there are very few Japanese users that I can see, perhaps allowing users to post in their own language with either the English version underneath or state "you can reply in *insert language*" would be acceptable, provide a warning which language it is in the thread title, I'd see no problem

I can predict native English speakers may have a problem, and non-native English speakers will be all for this idea, the only way to make sure this idea would work is to test it out, and should you need a testbed I'm willing to offer any threads I create, I mean in the past many of us have slipped in the odd phrase or two in another language, heck, maybe formalising something like this would help all us lazy native English speakers get offa our lazy arses and learn another language!

weevil wrote:... heck, maybe formalising something like this would help all us lazy native English speakers get offa our lazy arses and learn another language!

Ouch weevil!

Speak for yourself!!! I've studied 4 languages and I can only converse in English. I tried very hard and it was extremely difficult---I finally gave up because I just don't have an aptitude for language; yet, my aptitude in other areas is very high. For example, I do very well with creative thinking, art, mathematics and computer languages. Go figure! The non-native language that "stuck" in my grey matter the best was Latin---a dead language! And it didn't stick very well.

Personally, I'd like to keep this an all-English site. The reason is so that all posts can be read equally well. For other languages, I recommend creating a new domain with its own website and forums that is completely separate and everyone who joins it will be able to read all of the posts there equally well. Multilingual members will be able to pick and choose which domain they participate at based on the topics and content.

Best regards, First Light

Prodigy wrote:That reminds me something guys!

What you think to create a section for other languages??

Prodigy, I've noticed that, on the internet, even native English speakers often write as if English is their second language!!!!!

I usually find that people whose native language is not English generally make a better attempt to write it correctly. Makes a refreshing change from the usual Internet Illiterate gobbledygook!

That has no bearing on the original suggestion, though, just thought I'd mention it.....
.

First Light wrote:The non-native language that "stuck" in my grey matter the best was Latin---a dead language! And it didn't stick very well.

I thought I was the only one!!

I've been fascinated by Latin ever since I found out what Regan McNeil was saying when she said to Father Karras, "Mirabile dictu, don’t you agree?" And Father Karrass answered "Quod nomen mihi est?”

Such an elegant language.

Forget Esperanto, I say! Let's all speak Latin!

Since everyone here reads and writes English well enough to participate I think that all posts should have an English version but that members who want to could include a version of the post in other languages too.

That would improve communication between members who share a non-English language and speak it better but also let everyone benefit from the post through the shared English language.

I think trying to accommodate those who don't speak English at all would just create separate forums within this forum ... so they should just make separate forums outside of this forum. There could be sticky posts here in various languages noting where other-language forums are.

---------

All y'all kin talk right! If you wanna talk foreign talk go righta head but you better write English too.

Latin for fans of Lost:
Others: What lies at the feet of the statue?
Richard: He who will save us all.

Is that right you Latin speakers? Is that what Richard and the Others (?) said in the season finale?

I do not like the idea of creating another forum for another language. This does not create cultural exchange. Anyone who want to post in his native language can do. He'll see if someone replied.
We are fortunate to have a universal language: the image.

Je n'aime pas l'idée de créer un autre forum pour une autre langue. Cela ne crée pas d'échange culturelle. Celui qui veux poster dans sa langue native peux le faire. Il verra bien si quelqu'un lui répond.
Nous avons la chance d'avoir un language universel: l'image.

I really didn't intend for this to become a discussion about having other languages on here. I agree with Steinie and First Light that this forum should stay English only. I have tried to post of Tagalog sites and it becomes difficult to receive a reply in English.
If there is a Tagalog forum, it would have to be started and run by Filipinos just like the German site.
I just wanted to mention that there is another culture beginning to see Truespace now.(Too bad it is going off the original site.)

First Light wrote:

weevil wrote:... heck, maybe formalising something like this would help all us lazy native English speakers get offa our lazy arses and learn another language!

Ouch weevil!

Speak for yourself!!! I've studied 4 languages and I can only converse in English. I tried very hard and it was extremely difficult---I finally gave up because I just don't have an aptitude for language; yet, my aptitude in other areas is very high. For example, I do very well with creative thinking, art, mathematics and computer languages. Go figure! The non-native language that "stuck" in my grey matter the best was Latin---a dead language! And it didn't stick very well.

Personally, I'd like to keep this an all-English site. The reason is so that all posts can be read equally well. For other languages, I recommend creating a new domain with its own website and forums that is completely separate and everyone who joins it will be able to read all of the posts there equally well. Multilingual members will be able to pick and choose which domain they participate at based on the topics and content.

Best regards, First Light

Don't get me wrong there, I was not singling you out of a crowd, I've asked around my classmates "who here knows another language?" and no-one says yes, I ask "who here is going to try at some point?", and again no-one replies, and considering next year our class goes to the Cologne game convention for a week and no-one's at least bothering to learn how to say "Alles gut mit dir?" or "Wie Heisst du?".

Self learning agreed is in no understated terms "Bloody difficult", some of you here know I'm trying to get my head around learning basic and slightly-more-than basic German before then moving on to French and Spanish and it's proving taxing and difficult at best. I have a terrible scope for learning full stop and it's taken me far too long to understand the difference just between "ich bin" and "mir ist". There are chaps I speak to though who get worn out and "tired out" simply by having to form complex sentences in English for too long. Agreed, on Forums you can theoretically take as much time as you would want or need to form a reply, check and double check, which is why they are the best site for learning more international Languages, whether the TScommuntiy wishes that is entirely different. I signed up to the German TS forum and recieved a fantastic greeting, heck, fantastic greeting mostly in ENGLISH, I'm curious as to why English speaking forums aren't quite so leniant. But in the long run, if you get the basics down of as many languages as possible, its unbelievable how much, A) It assists those where English isn't their first language, and B) It helps you in the long run.

Of course, what I'm driving at is not to make this forum a hotspot for things like sifting through various answers in various languages, English should, if anything to save confusion should still be the primary language, but when it comes to assisting those who have difficulty speaking English, the end result means you can actually communicate a lot better, considering everyone who's been on the internet knows where "Yahoo Babelfish" is, it doesn't take too much time to look up one particular phrase or two, or even what Marcel has done with his post above

Being so strict about one particular language I doubt would be the way forwards

Steve

anybody up for some "Afrikaans"! ;) [its a variation of Dutch that they speak in the Netherlands/Holland and brought over to South Africa a few centuries ago]

I must admit though that at work, I almost always speak English and I write and read English a lot better than I do my native language since I almost never get the opportunity to use it... I do find that I can express myself a lot better in English though because it seems to have a much better vocabulary to bring across what you want to say... I do a lot of fiction writing as well on the side...

weevil wrote:Don't get me wrong there, I was not singling you out of a crowd, ...

I never thought so but I guess my point was not understood. I was simply using myself as an example to refute the notion that a person is lazy because they can't converse in multiple languages. It may have nothing to do with laziness. It may simply be a lack of aptitude as is my case.

weevil wrote:... Self learning agreed is in no understated terms "Bloody difficult", ...

Who said anything about self-learning? Every time that I studied a language, it was with professional instruction. My teachers were as exasperated as me at my poor progress. I studied my first langauge as a little kid in Elementary School. My next language in High School. My last two languages in College. My teachers were very gifted---but I wasn't.

weevil wrote:... Being so strict about one particular language I doubt would be the way forwards ...

"Strict", huh? Because we want to understand each other we're "tight, tense, exact, severe, rigorous, and not loose or vague" (Webster's definition of "strict")? First, we're lazy if we don't make an effort to learn another language. Now we're "strict" if we want to use a common language?

Quite the contrary: In my experience, this is one of the most helpful and lenient forums around. I doubt that any of us "lazy native English speakers" (your words!) care what language we use as long as we can understand each other. After all, what's the point of trying to communicate if you don't try to be understood. It's the Tower of Babel all over again.

And as for online translators, you've got to be kidding!!! Have you actually used them? I have and they are inept at best---especially when it comes to technical communication and colloquialisms. They have their place but I would never suggest them unless there was no other choice.

In summary, it is not lazy to want to understand one another and that requires some form of common language. Nor are we being strict to ask people to kindly attempt to be understood when they have something to ask or say. Nor does it mean that we think one language or culture is better than another. It has nothing to do with it. It is purely a desire to communicate.

Finally, maybe I'm old fashioned, but the first thing I was taught regarding good communcation is to not insult the people with whom I want to communicate.

Best regards, First Light

In the last post by Marcel he posted using two languages. The top half in English
and the bottom half in French. I have no problem with individuals communicating in
this style if that is their preference to communicate with others.

PM can be used for personal communication or instruction.

I can communicate in 30 languages using sign language...just cut me off on the highway
and you'll see.

First light please back off a bit instead of misreading minor points that you believe are insults directed at you or any other party and for the sake of reading enjoymeant please moderate your tone. Debates are really only fun if no-one takes the hump.

Now as you rightly pointed out what's the point of trying to communicate if you don't try to be understood, so if you struggle with English, perhaps writing the part you have trouble with in say...Spanish would allow you to have a wider range of vocabulary and in the long run make yourself better understood, while languages may not be everyone's cup of tea, and you've clearly shown that some have more trouble with it than others.

Clarification with using Online translators, yes they're inept, that's why it's never a good idea to consult them for actually writing and replying in another language, but if I run a part of a word or a part of a phrase through it, I can get the gist of the sentence and at least work out the rest, as after all, understanding a language is a lot easier than writing and replying in it because something like "Ich will Deutsch sprechen" seems the same as "Ich will sprechen Deutsch" if you don't know the ins and outs of it. And everyone on this forum can read English, just when it comes to replying, if a certain phrase is difficult, hop on over to your native language for the phrase you find hard, I have no doubt that someone will be able to reply to it.

Heck, it might even be just for a bit of fun that you write a phrase in French or italian just for artistic flair. Although what I drive at is more along the lines of, not being adamant about either writing solely in English, and also not being adamant about allowing total useage of other languages and more just take it more in our stride, if someone writes in German then fair enough, likewise if they attempt english but struggle along, it's also fair enough, likewise if they speak perfect english. Or even like what Marcel has done in his last post, that's fair enough right?

Of course, if you don't understand a phrase in another language, maybe like Stenie says pm systems can work wonders, I understand there is great potential for this sort of thing to turn crazy if not moderated, that's why like I said I'm willing to simply say as a testbed, if no-one has any objections, any threads I create/have created can be written in more than just English. Also that said, my idea will NOT work if we have to start laying down rules as to when and where to post in English and should that ever come about I'll bow out and "admit defeat" to you, what I drive at is to allow each poster's descression as to which language they post in should they find something difficult

ATB
Steve

I like hot thread
60 percent of English words come from the old french and a lot of french world comes from the Arabic. The most fun: their meaning are different than the current meaning. Most french use English words without knowing it is french words. Most languages in the world are the result of successive incorrect traduction and that ultimately become news official languages. But progress can also come from the addition of knowledge: the numbers from 1 to 9 were born in India. Zero was invented by the Arabs. thanks to this association, the man has a common language: mathematics. I think Internet is accelerating this process and the younger generations already speak differently. Abbreviated messages on the mobil phone is an example of change. what is wrong today may be in the school books tomorrow.

Steinie wrote, "In the last post by Marcel he posted using two languages. The top half in English and the bottom half in French."

What Marcel did is exactly what I meant in my post. Post in whatever languages you want to but include an English version so we all get something from the post.

I don't think there should be a rule. It should just be considered the courteous thing to do.

Personally, I use English on this forum to learn this language. not only to traduce. I realize that the meaning of english words from the old french no longer have the same meaning. I think a different mentality through the centuries has changed the meaning of words that had a common origin. It is interesting to understand how language is created.

Sometimes when we dont know how to write it well on English, I think its not problem to write it on others language as long as we also try to include the English version.

And members who answer the question also need to answer 2 languanges (that language and English).

Try on English first, if other can not understand what you mean, feel free to ask on your languange and please also try to include English version for respect other readers.

weevil wrote:First light please back off a bit instead of misreading minor points that you believe are insults directed at you or any other party and for the sake of reading enjoymeant please moderate your tone. Debates are really only fun if no-one takes the hump. ...

Please explain how my tone has not been moderate. Please also explain how your comments cited below have been "misread":

weevil wrote:... heck, maybe formalising something like this would help all us lazy native English speakers get offa our lazy arses and learn another language!

weevil wrote:... Being so strict about one particular language I doubt would be the way forwards ...

I think Marcel and Steinie have both shown that we are not trying to make this place monolinquistic and if that's what you thought then you misunderstood. But the purpose of communication is to communicate and you can't do that when you use a language others don't understand. Creating separate places at this website for different languages will not promote communication. It will promote segregation.

Who do you want to communicate with here? What subject do you want to communicate about? What do you think is the best way to do that?

Best regards, First Light

I wasn't actually talking about seperate forums, I was talking about "language X" to be spoken in the current forums we have, in a similar fashion to what Marcel did, perhaps that was not made clear enough.

First phrase: Simply put was banter, do not read into it so seriously, do not assume i am making attacks on you, you've attempted over 4 languages, that's more than I've tried, so maybe the statement could even have been directed at myself, perhaps it was directed at those who would never want to learn another language ever.

"Being so strict about one particular language" indicates only using English, no other Language and as our discussion shows, if there's such a debate about posting a couple of phrases in German or French it shows that maybe allowing these things without such a fuss would be better than us saying "in English please?"

I'm more than likely feeling aggressive today, so let's go with that, to save further argument and further derailment of the thread I accept your point and make an apology for being so abbrasive, it's not like I didn't make my opinion heard. Heck maybe tommorow I'll have a problem with the sky being blue and it's difficult to understand tone in text sometimes when you'd rather the world had a red backdrop rather than blue

Steve

Hi, I like to read different languages - for me it's an easy way to learn about it, especially 'cause of the interesting context 3D. In common learning context I'd probably fall back to laziness - my second name.

On the other hand with technical terms and explanations I'm more used to read and understand in english than in my native language, because worldwide used computer terminology is english and guessed almost 95% of my library came in that flavour.

Marcel, please pardon me taking up your etymological essay. I think unwittingly you gave a geniously set example of a "false friend*", which sustains your 1st sentence here:

... The most fun: their meaning are different than the current meaning. Most french use English words without knowing it is french words. Most languages in the world are the result of successive incorrect traduction and that ultimately become news official languages...

This is also an example to second what weevil said. If you know other languages (here french-english), also if only rudimentarily, you will have less difficulties to understand the "none mothertongues" like me.

*Our english teacher always told us to pay attention to those "false friends" (a word or a word stem existing in two languages, usually same spelling, but different meanings), which is kind of a trap to easily stumble in, if you're a none native speaker. Believe me, I've got some experience ... still learning

Regards
-BM.

BooxieMalone wrote: Marcel, please pardon me taking up your etymological essay. I think unwittingly you gave a geniously set example of a "false friend*", which sustains your 1st sentence here:
... The most fun: their meaning are different than the current meaning. Most french use English words without knowing it is french words. Most languages in the world are the result of successive incorrect traduction and that ultimately become news official languages...

"incorrect traduction": I mean mistranslation ! (i hope it is the good word now) Yes it is unwittingly! It was not humor. Just my poor english (and Google translation).
"False friends" is often the cause of a misunderstanding. This is not a problem to discuss about Truespace. As I avoid criticism against a person if I do not know the language very well.

Hi Marcel, I only found this funny. No critisism at all, nor targeted against you. If it came across as such, I'm very sorry. The only reason to pick this up was you were talking of fun yourself just one sentence above and I thought this is a good example for the situation you all were talking about extensivly over a couple of pages before I stepped in: In common - Everybody is understanding what you wanted to say, 'cause everybody is willing to communicate with each other, well knowing that it is difficult to write in another language. So the language fades into the background, it is only a tool - which tool you're using is up to you. Everybody can choose freely between the tools she or he wants to learn. BTW I'll be happy if someone gives me a note, if I've written mistakes - I'm still learning.

Kind Regards
-BM.

No problem BM. when we start to understand what is funny in a language, we begin to understand how it works. Humor is universal as art, music, maths... and help to learn.

Wow... What a family this fourm is ..

This is the most exilerating thread I've read on this site yet... Up down happy mad hurt angry sad apoligetic imbareassed
and in the end still friends... still family... I tell ya... This place is more like home every day...
And I think that's a very good thing... .. .

Cheerrs
ranger0101

I agree Ranger0101!

The people who gathered in the Caligari forum are a great bunch of people. TS is good but is it these people that made the Caligari forums such a good place.

This forum will keep this group together even if or when we are using other software. So it will be great here too!

Prodigy wrote:That reminds me something guys!

What you think to create a section for other languages??

Well, since site is called United3dArtists and all artist don't necessarily speak one language I say, why not? Now implimenting in forums maybe the real issue. Maybe some sharing of contest results (as in SMC is actually one contest between everyone, no matter the language and someone in each language zone can or will translate results, methods and info to the other.) This would make it more inclusive to folks that speak one language besides English. Wished shared space had a built in translator, as in one speaks one language will be automatically imterpreted to client language, wishful thinking only now.

Besides we really don't have a choice about being multi-lingual... C++, Python and LE Script.....

I think automatic translation would work perfectly. Here is evidence. Babel Fish translation from sort of English to Russian and then back to English.

Well sh*t fire! You better straighten up and act right. You want a whipping?
Became:
Good fire of sh*t! You more better straighten upward and you act right. You do want to shake up?

It's more than a good ways. It's a fur piece. Took pretty much all week to get there.
Became:
It' s are greater than good ways. It' the part of the fur A.S. Entire much week accepted sufficiently in order to obtain there.