United3dArtists Archive

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 14 Nov 2011, 04:39

To make gears I started with a cylinder. Then I selected some of the faces around the edge in point edit mode and used point edit scale to move them in or out. That made the teeth. The detail on the sides is from moving some faces and using bevel in point edit.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 14 Nov 2011, 11:29

oh ya, i forgot, i should mention the plugin named Gear Generator - geargen :) Maybe that can speed things up. but its not too complicated to make gear anyway.

So far very nice start, we need more gears! :)

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 16 Nov 2011, 03:19

I'm not sure if I found the geargen you wrote about Bitkar. I found a geargen plugin for Rhino and this http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html" . I made a few screen grabs from the online one. The download demo makes distorted images and dxf files. The paid version looks good if you make money from 3D gears or just can afford it as a toy.

I'll model a few gears with radial arrays of teeth and various inner wheels or discs. Here is a gear with spokes and a prototype machine. The prototype helped with overall style, spacing, and sizing of components. It also revealed some mechanical flaws.

This will get steampunk details and textures.

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 16 Nov 2011, 04:56

Those are amazing gears. Is the second gear made by hand? Or did the Rhino plugin also do that one?

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 16 Nov 2011, 05:43

Thanks Draise. All of these gears are hand made. I don't have Rhino so I didn't get the plugin.

I made the orange gear using the reference image shown. The image is a screen grab from the online gear thing at the link above. I made a tooth and then a radial array of teeth. Then I point edited a cylinder for the beveled inner disc. Then I made a shape to cut the spaces between spokes, radial arrayed it, and Booleaned it from the disc. That way I can make several disc designs and put the same teeth on them. I'll do that for a few more gears.

The earlier gears are from cylinders with point editing to push, pull, and bevel faces.

The prototype machine had too many gears and couldn't have functioned. Its bars connecting the discs on the ends would hit each other or the axles. Next is a new prototype with those corrected. The final might get chain drives instead of discs and bars.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 16 Nov 2011, 10:17

hey, very nice MMC project! Will someone compete against you??

check this attachement out ;)

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 16 Nov 2011, 17:32

Thanks Bitkar. I'll try the plugin. Where did you get it? If I can make many different types of gears with it then I might use many different ones.

Here is an improved prototype machine and a massive one made with copies. The regular one is the one for the project.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 17 Nov 2011, 03:17

Geargen crashed TS 7.6 and TS 5. A warning said it was for TS 4 so I guess this plugin meant it.

Here are Gears 1A, 1B, and 2A.

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 17 Nov 2011, 15:56

These are seriously looking fantastic. I'd love to try compete =)

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 17 Nov 2011, 23:59

Draise wrote:I'd love to try compete

Then do.

These are probably the teeth for the gears. Each gear is a group with teeth and a disk. I'll make a few different disks/spokes and mix them with the teeth rings for variety. One gear has a bump map border. I'll apply bumps for style.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 18 Nov 2011, 00:56

That's really rather slick, I like models like this
Keep going, I'm watching...afraid I can't participate

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 19 Nov 2011, 18:10

Trying bump maps to get some style. The more complicated patters look "steampunkier" to me but even the simple ones hardly show except in a close up.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 21 Nov 2011, 01:52

Here are the components for the gears. There are several disks, three sets of teeth, a set of rivets, a nut, and a set of drills to make holes. The rivets and drills are radial arrays so I can change the number, size, etc. I'll also make a screw head. By making different combinations of these I can make many different gears. Some have bump maps visible in the full size picture.

A finished gear is shown in brass with copper rivets.

Do these look steampunk?

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 21 Nov 2011, 02:20

Finis,
I have a copy of the Gear maker software.
It is less than 1 meg in file size.
Let me know if you want it and we will figure how to get it to you.
It is a free application.

v3rd3 · Post by **v3rd3** » 21 Nov 2011, 04:57

jeff which gear maker do you have?

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 21 Nov 2011, 09:32

As they say a picture is worth a 1000 words so here is a screen capture of the program.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 21 Nov 2011, 12:16

finis: your machine looks like a true industrial art ! i very like it. It has a very big potential. If you will get the right industrial mood in the scene - lighting, materials, maybe some post effect/filter.

my geargen plugin... well ive been collecting useful plugins for years (all the time I use tS) and i still have most of them (almost all). So i reminded, that there was something for gears. Dont know how old is it. But some plugins work no matter how old they are. Unfortunatly, seems like this is not the case :D (had not time to check it with tS7.61)

nevermind, your gears look great.

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 21 Nov 2011, 12:40

For those that are interested I added a page to my website that is hidden from the public.
The page has a link to the Gearmaker software.
Here is the link http://creative3danimation.zxq.net/U3D.html

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 21 Nov 2011, 16:40

Thanks Jeffroig. I tried that gear maker. I like the one for the wooden gears better since it will make two gears that fit together and gives the teeth the curved sides etc.

Thanks Bitkar.

Here are tests with some finished gears. The original design with the gears close together between the braces hides some of the gear details behind the braces. Which of these looks best to show more of the gears.
- Use one brace with gears on both sides.
- Use the current design but with more space to show gears.
- Something else.

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 21 Nov 2011, 16:50

Very nice looking Finis.
What is going to be the end result of this?
I can kind of picture Captain Nemo's vessel or some type of Sherlock Holmes thing from the 19th century.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 21 Nov 2011, 18:17

Hi all! I'm not here often for several months ...
Just a trick to say "hello"

This kind of free utility on the internet is only used to print.
But it is possible to use a print file (.plt) and convert it to dxf and then import into trueSpace.
It avoids buying software (with option to save as 3d file) for a specific use.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 21 Nov 2011, 19:08

Thanks Jeffroig. The end result is a mildly funny purpose for the machine to be revealed later. It P'es B's.

Hi Marcel! That is the online gear thing I used but I just did a screen capture to use as a reference image. How did you convert the output to dxf?

Here is a chain drive.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 21 Nov 2011, 21:13

Hi Finis
http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html"
Not to print, use the button "Download HPGL" to save a file plt. uses a converter plt2dxf.
http://www.guthcad.com/hpgl2cad.htm"
The demo version allows simple files but sufficient for a gear. choose autocad 2000 format or older. The soft create two files (name.dxf and name2.dxf, i don't know why but keep the name2.dxf). I prefer to open this dxf with illustrator to remove unnecessary details then i save a new dxf file to export a clean gear. The form is closed and can be extruded on trueSpace.
I hope that help you.

ps: this method works better than the version of the purchased soft and it is free. (Illustrator is the best friend of trueSpace to create exportable 2d shapes. with the convertion pack for TS, you can also use real 2d nurbs and shape with many holes from illustrator to trueSpace without problem).

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 21 Nov 2011, 23:33

If you have time Marcel start a new thread and tell us where you have been. Welcome back.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 21 Nov 2011, 23:49

Steinie wrote:If you have time Marcel start a new thread and tell us where you have been. Welcome back.

Yeah.

Who cares what adventures Steinie has been having. We don't want to hear about that. (Ha ha).

hpgl2cad: Thanks Marcel but the free one only works for a couple of weeks. I'd prefer to get something that is free and permanent. Couldn't find one one the web though. Anyone know of a free hpgl to something-TS-can-import converter?

No problem. I can make the few gears I need.

theuns · Post by **theuns** » 22 Nov 2011, 08:26

love the gears Finis, inspirational, just got to come up with an idea of my own now...

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 22 Nov 2011, 08:42

finis wrote : "hpgl2cad: Thanks Marcel but the free one only works for a couple of weeks. I'd prefer to get something that is free and permanent. Couldn't find one one the web though. Anyone know of a free hpgl to something-TS-can-import converter?"

you can also use pdf creator. A free virtual printer. When this printer is selected you can click on the print button then you can save a pdf instead to print on paper. the pdf create a vector of the shape of the gear. it can be used on illustrator to write a dxf file. pdf creator is useful for many things.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 23 Nov 2011, 20:03

Theuns: please do. Wouldn't want to see another low participation MMC. How about an SMC entry too?

Marcel: I've got the gears I need now but I'll look at the virtual printer to pdf to dxf method next time I need gears.

Here is the machine with the gears. There will be 3 chain drives. Axels, nuts, details still to be done. Now it has various gears, chain drive, and peg gears. I'll make it wider to have more space to show more of the gear detail. Then a base. Then probably a photo background followed by adjusting the textures and lighting for the final render.

v3rd3 · Post by **v3rd3** » 23 Nov 2011, 23:36

Salut Marcel!! welcome back... hope all is well with your foundation....

as to gears... have you guys seen this...

http://www.emachineshop.com/machine-sho ... ge506.html

DanX · Post by **DanX** » 24 Nov 2011, 06:15

Well you might want to try this its free and you can save your 2D cad drawings in many different versions if DWG ,DXF DWT.

And also export in pdf, bmp,tif,eps,png,Jpeg,emf,sld,svg,and stl . It is totally free from a reputable company. They do ask that you activate via a email registration process that is the same as registering here.

With those formats you should be able to open up these files in just about any 3d app and extrude and build upon like TS,Hexagon,Silo,Carrara, and even Vue. I am sure there are many others.

Here is the link. Check out the video. http://www.3ds.com/products/draftsight/overview/

Dragneye · Post by **Dragneye** » 26 Nov 2011, 02:29

Pretty cool Finis!

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 26 Nov 2011, 05:27

Thanks Dragneye.

Lots of recommendations for gear generators. Thanks.

This one has axles, nuts, the chain drive fitted to the axels, and a base. Need to work on the base, add two more chain drives, reduce the size of the pegs on the peg gears, and such.

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 26 Nov 2011, 06:44

This is looking great! What will the machine be!? Can we know? Is this a surprise?

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 26 Nov 2011, 15:37

Draise wrote:What will the machine be!? Can we know? Is this a surprise?

Soon ... it is not funniest thing ever. Hint: it is kind of like my round bridge.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 27 Nov 2011, 02:25

Ladies and Gentlemen: The button pushing machine. Yes, you can push buttons with ease using this marvelous device.

There are some things to improve. I might remove one gear and axle and move the upper chain drive to align it with another one. There will be metal brackets holding the curved braces to the wood. I might make the gears thicker but that would take some time. The textures, lighting, and other final render issues will be taken care of later.

The part that pushes the button is too far from the rest of the machine. I can change the proportions of the wooden base and put the pusher arm close to the rest of course. The pushing parts need something. The machine is meant to be whimsical but I want it to look versatile, able to push buttons on many objects, while also showing the effort needed compared to just pushing the button yourself.

Any ideas? What mechanisms can you think of for the "output" parts -- the parts that push the button? Your input is welcome as always.

More MMC participants would be good too!

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 27 Nov 2011, 18:26

Nice job.
Looks like it took lots of work!

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 27 Nov 2011, 19:00

I think you invented the "Perpetual Motion Machine"!
Looking at the latest rendering I can picture a finger instead of the wooden drum stick. The finger pushes another button of another geared machine etc. etc.
I think a black phenolic button instead of the wooden button would stand out better.
Wow is this really good! Great job!

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 28 Nov 2011, 00:36

Thanks Steinie, Peter, and Draise.

Peter: Yeah, too much work. The fun kind but I should wrap this up and put more effort into the money kind.

Steinie: Hmm, several of these in a circle. I'll see how that looks when the machine is done. Finger. That has humor and emphasizes that you should have just used your own finger but I'm going more toward steampunk-ish. I'll make the wooden button darker. It does blend in with the wood base too much.

The drum stick/finger needs different mechanics. For style or art it should have the drum stick assembly emerge from the center of the arcs and not reach so far out. The mechanical design would show versatility by being able to reach farther. Ideas welcome.

I want to make the base smaller but if I change its proportions then the bump texture gets too narrow along some sides. I hope to keep this bump. The base will probably become a box. That would put the machine up higher. Better for reaching buttons.

No luck finding a good background image so far. Steampunk or Victorian era room.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 28 Nov 2011, 09:56

hahaaa, looking good :) try to run the physics in tS with this ;D

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 29 Nov 2011, 00:08

Lot's of fun work gone in there! Looks great! Next time I will contribute! The next MMC!

froo · Post by **froo** » 29 Nov 2011, 05:08

Very nice Finis.

Jill · Post by **Jill** » 08 Dec 2011, 02:37

jeffroig wrote:For those that are interested I added a page to my website that is hidden from the public.
The page has a link to the Gearmaker software.
Here is the link http://creative3danimation.zxq.net/U3D.html"

If the intended use is for looks this is fine, however it should be noted that this does NOT produce involute teeth and should not be used for real world applications like using shapeways to make a functional physical model from a 3D printer [as I am], and the gears will have problems at best if not just bind up and not work at all. But again, if it is just for looks, then this is perfect as it produces very few polygons, and for that I commend you for providing this software!

marcel wrote:Hi Finis
http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html"
Not to print, use the button "Download HPGL" to save a file plt. uses a converter plt2dxf.
http://www.guthcad.com/hpgl2cad.htm"

The woodgears on line software does produce involute teeth, however as the maker notes, the math and profiles are not perfect and some configurations can bind and not function.

v3rd3 wrote:Salut Marcel!! welcome back... hope all is well with your foundation....
as to gears... have you guys seen this...
http://www.emachineshop.com/machine-sho ... ge506.html"

I have also checked out the eMachine software, but have yet to fig how to convert the files to a useful format since it uses a proprietary format.

What I did find was this gear manufacturing site with two on line gear maker programs, one for fine pitch and one for coarse pitch gears:
http://custom-manufactured-gears.amgear ... spur-gears
You will find them in the links in the 'Downloads' box on the right of the page.
These produce DXF files, and they appear to produce true involute teeth so they should not bind and should produce a constant velocity of transmission.

I also found this http://www.micromouse.ca/downloads.html for converting a plethora of 3D file types. It is not free [they clearly state] but they do not place any restrictions on, or tricks in the software and are counting on your honesty to delete the program after 30 days if you do not purchase it.

I am designing a device that I will have printed on a 3D printer at shapeways:
http://www.shapeways.com/
I am finding editing in tS difficult so far, but I have not been able to find a simple mesh editor without all the materials and animation stuff that can import and export usable formats. To be honest it is taking FOREVER just to do the simplest mesh editing as most of my time is spent dealing with figuring out the counterintuitive interface of tS and trying to perform even the simplest functions just turns into one big pain in the ass!

I hope this info helps those that are looking for more accurate gear profiles.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 08 Dec 2011, 03:11

Thanks Jill! Welcome to the forum.

I probably won't do much more on this before entering it in the MMC. Too much real world stuff to deal with. I do have ideas to improve it and for an alternate version that I might do sometime.

Come you all. Make MMC entries.

v3rd3 · Post by **v3rd3** » 09 Dec 2011, 16:52

Sorry Finis... my hopes for a last minute entry were dashed with my mother in law going back into hospital this week....

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 14 Dec 2011, 04:55

Best wishes for your mother-in-law V3rd3.

This one has supports to connect the rails to the base and a set screw on the round part of the pusher rod.

The background photo is free to use with attribution so:
Background photo by Les Chatfield http://www.flickr.com/photos/elsie/2197 ... otostream/"

This is my MMC entry.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 14 Dec 2011, 09:15

:-/ wanna know my opinion?

model is great, it looks really cool, lots of gears, it looks crazy as it should. But what about the lighting, shading, shadows? Look at the "button box". It looks like done in MS paint and then put in the picture.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 14 Dec 2011, 13:13

Finis,
I calculated your gear ratios, figured out the load and torque needed with my trusty slide rule and found that your drum stick will go UP not DOWN!!!

(Just kidding)

Other than the shadows needed to make your rendering more realistic...excellent entry!

froo · Post by **froo** » 14 Dec 2011, 15:07

Steinie you really need to get out more often....

Just kiddin!

You all rock!

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 14 Dec 2011, 16:16

Thanks everyone. Yeah the render and some stuff could be better. Not enough time to work on it anymore for now. Maybe a little on the shadows. I would have time since I have little work in the winter but this winter is different. I have so little work, and summer wasn't good enough to save any, that I have to do everything I can think of to make some money.

As you can see from earlier detail pictures, several of the gears have bumps and details that aren't very visible in the finished picture. Lesson: expect that in 3D work and also maybe consider the finished product and don't add unnecessary detail.

Although I want to finish my unfinished 3D projects before new ones I'll probably do more on this in the future. I would have the rod that extends from the machine come from the center of the arcs and remove the last gear from the top arc so the chain drives line up there. I also might make a version with full circle arcs and flipped 90 degrees so it is a horizontal ring. A worm drive would push a rod down to the target button.

Steinie, ha ha! Given measurements I'll bet Jill really could do that. You could trace through the machine just by looking at it and see which way the drum stick would go. I wonder, with the input button pushed a little if the drum stick would spin wildly, barely move, or what?

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 14 Dec 2011, 17:24

Last update for the MMC version. The infinite light array for general all over light now has mapped shadows, the shadow infinite light is now two lights. One has ray shadows for a darker more defined shadow core and the other has mapped for some softening. Changed the textures on the button box.

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 14 Dec 2011, 18:33

Ooooooo looks really good now!

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 15 Dec 2011, 09:10

thats a little better, altought i would sugest to use area light with ray shadows maybe. And maybe some low intezity IBL or skylight with mapped shadows for the ambient oclussion like effect.
I really like the model. Its really "incredible mechanics" :) This fills the MMC name fully.

Jill · Post by **Jill** » 15 Dec 2011, 09:35

Finis wrote:Steinie, ha ha! Given measurements I'll bet Jill really could do that.

Actually, if I also had the specific equations used [as I think some of your gears are from the wood gear site that admittedly has flawed equations], then yes I could... But that is not really the point of this, is it? I would have to say this looks beautifully complex,.. and I think that is the point. Great work!

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 15 Dec 2011, 21:50

Thanks Draise.

Bitkar: Yeah. I had a good set up with the global environment light (model side hdri light) but it made sparkles or bright spots on things. I've found that I have to use the ge/hdri light throughout texturing to get it to look right and I didn't have time to tune all the textures to the light.

Jill: I always appreciate someone who understands the difference between art/style and practical/functional -- that an art piece is "look and feel" not engineering.

I considered making sequences of meshed gears with no connection to other sequences. Example: the mega-machine earlier in the thread = copy & paste. A touch of functionality adds to the "look and feel" that it could really work. So I made it so that, if the parts could do what I imagine, the force could "flow" from the input button to the drumstick for some unknown movement.

My style goal was steampunk but I don't think I achieved that. I liked the semi-cartoony look of some earlier renders more that the attempts at realism.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 15 Dec 2011, 22:51

nice gears:

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 16 Dec 2011, 09:19

that looks awesome!

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » 18 Dec 2011, 19:27

Finis you have done a real good job here!

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » 18 Dec 2011, 19:29

Welcome back Marcel! I thought you had dissapeared for ever.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 10 Jan 2012, 22:04

Thanks everyone. Marcel, that is a cool animation.

Playing around with volumetrics in TS 7.6 modelside lightworks render. Five copies of the machine make hall of gears. Advanced volumetrics with turbulence produced the light rays and gold background. About 20 minutes render time on 2.6GHz dual core.

I wasn't thinking about art or anything but seeing the result I got ideas. I should make one with rusty textures and neglected broken parts in the foreground transitioning to shiny new ones in the back. Title "Forgotten Promise". Another possibility: after I make a full circle machine use it like this with no ground. Title "Mechanical Sun".

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 10 Jan 2012, 22:43

That is the coolest render and concept.. almost like inverted cog clouds. You have a cool test render. =) I wish this forum had a Gallery. =)

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