United3dArtists Archive

Tough question...

What 3D application are you considering to replace tS in your 3D production workflow?

Just asking, please don't throw stones.

that is a good question, I am going to stick with TS for a while and see what happens. I wouldn't even know where to begin to compare. There are so many applications out there, I am not sure which ones fall into the same category as TS as a complete package.

Is there a list out there somewhere for the 3d programs, what they do well what they don't?

Modeliing, Texture, Sculpting, Anamation, Keyframe, Physics sims.

If I ever have money for 3D:
Modo if they get bones for character animation, else Lightwave.

Without money:
Blender

I'll still use TS too as long as it runs on the hardware/os and where I like it better for a task.

No stone throwing here. This forum isn't only for TS.

I will continue to use TS for a number of purposes. There are limitations to what TS can produce, when I hit those limitations I add what I need to finish the piece but for the projects I have within those limitations I will continue to use TS.

Most of what I will do will stay on the modeller side as I have the plugins I need to accomplish a number of special fx etc.

I do also have Carrara, Bryce, Blender, 3D Coat, Hexagon, Daz Studio, Sketchup, and Vue. Carrara and Blender give me reasonable hair tools and fluids.

When my budget permits I will be looking into Maya ... the one thing I cannot do yet is create original content for Call of Duty Mods and as far as I know this will be the only way I can do it.

What about Zbrush?

I have seen a lot of things lately on and the sculpting that can be done looks amazing. Can it anamate or do anything else besides sculpt?

BTW v3rd3 and all; did you know that you can import blender fluids into truespace using the fluid sim importer plugin?
You can do much more than that as well. Over on the public forums there is a link where you can download everything but the importer plugin itself, which sells for $16.
I wrote an extensive user manual, also free, complete with tutorials. Also there is a sample scene to experiment with.
Blender has the fluids, TS has the power to really manipulate those fluids for special effects. Make copies. Scale, position, and rotate those copies. Adjust their starting playback on the timeline to start at different times. Set some to play back in reverse.
Render them in real time with dx shaders. Render that to file. Or use VRay if you have it. Or, Lightworks. I made a plugin to render to LW across the bridge too. With and without fluids.

BTW I plan to use blender too, as soon as I finish this OBJ Exporter.

Sorry to not sound like a commercial; but plugins is all I've been doing. If I could buy Modo for modelling, or Messiah for animation, I would. heck if I can get a $25 dvd burner I'll be happy. The one I have is a hunk of junk and I look forward to dismantling it.

So, I'd use (and do use actually) blender.

For work, I had to make the switch to 3DSMax, SketchUp Pro, and Polytrans. The aerospace community loves them some Autodesk flavored CAD. It was the best choice to make the real-time output we use in STK, Freeflyer, and Hypercosm.

At home, I got Maya, though we have not become "best friends", yet.

To be honest I'm not sure tS has been that great a fit for me. It seems to have taken a long time to get to know it - longer than I anticipated. Having said that it will be a tool in my armoury for a longtime yet. At the moment I have been playing with Carrara which I picked up cheap last year. There are things I like about it and other things not. My biggest problem with it is I don't think the internal renderer is as good as lightworks. Of course I'm no expert so that opinion may evolve.

As I get older and my available cash seems to shrink I have to say Blender is looking more attractive. Like I said elsewhere I'm not going to dive in until the new 2.5 interface is officially released. Damned if I'm going to start learning one interface only to have to start learning another a few months later!

With neither Blender or Carrara do I see myself modelling much - I'll use them mainly for animation and render. Wings3D and tS will remain my main modelling tools for quite a while.

I still have a version of Imagine for the pc on my main computer at home. I got that with my first amiga in the early 90s and migrated with it when I got my first pc. The point is there are still some tasks I use it for even though it hasn't been actively developed for a decade. Funny thing is that on those rare occasions when I run it the shortcuts and modes of working all come flooding back. I think tS is going to be like that for me as well.

An active friendly community is also a big advantage for tS despite its official demise!

froo wrote:BTW v3rd3 and all; did you know that you can import blender fluids into truespace using the fluid sim importer plugin?

Yes indeedy. As soon as I have a project requiring fluids I will pick up the importer....

I was thinking of getting Houdini. They seem to have a lot of cool tools. But it looks to have a big learning curve. For the $99 they want for the Apprentice HD ed. I think its worth looking in to. I would also be using Hexagon and Zbrush with it.

http://www.sidefx.com"

And for any one looking into zbrush I highly recommend it. It is a vary fast modeling tool. As far as animation, It does not have any capability, but who knows we may see animation in Zbrush 4.

It seems there are just to many choices out there for every area you need. Doesn't seem like any one program really has a corner on any of it.

Zbrush has some really nice models coming out of it with the Sculpting tools, but I here to get the basic shapes it is better to start with something like max,ts blender, or maya. Then import to Zbrush to add the details.

Then it would need to be exported again for anamation or posing for the 3d image. and you have a whole new group of options for that.

Wow.. I have a headache.

An active friendly community is also a big advantage for tS despite its official demise![/quote]

Demise perhaps...but its feels like we are all "underground" now which makes the whole thing seem very clandestine and naughty

(Maybe I need to get out more eh? )

I'd go with Blender which even as it is now I find kinda cool. Well put about waiting for the official release of 2.5 though. Why have to relearn the interface?

I do like my TS though. There are things I have found frustrating at times but I can say that of any app.

I can't really see why people need to bail out, like v3rd3 I just adapt and use TS for what I know I can do quickly and export for mapping and rendering
BUT I don't do much rigged animation, I'm not that fussed on doing characters, so I wouldn't gain anything looking elsewhere

I said this years ago and still feel the same way. A really talented Artist would not be saying
"trueSpace is no longer supported I better find another 3D Application" Like the software is going to
make them better. Put a bad driver behind a Ferrari and you still get a bad driver...
The truth is if you developed your skill set using trueSpace then by adding software to your collection would be smarter
then replacing.
trueSpace didn't DEACTIVATE, it still works and in the hands of Talented artist can stand up to the best of them.

We are not "Underground" here. Heck the exact same users are here including the previous Caligari employees.
One of the big differences now is the fact that we can all discuss other packages. Using other packages is a fact of
life in the Professional field. Knowing how to use trueSpace in COMBINATION with other software will benefit all of us.

Life is too short to worry about all this stuff. Lets see results instead.

I agree with Steinie about skill and adding to TS. Of course keep using TS along with what ever else you might need. Tools are useless without skill. Creativity comes from you. We all use trueSpace but how many can do what Marcel does almost all in TS? Same tool. Different skill and creative ability.

A race car is not easy to drive. It needs an expert driver to fully use its ability and an expert needs one to win a race. Sightseeing drive or win a race? Hobby, profession, both? Super ultra ability or something cheap that does ok at a variety of things? Which programs depends on what you can and want to do and where you are going. Determine that first. Then select software.

(Thank Finis for quoting me. )
The best 3d tools is the understanding of what we see. This allows for what we really need and choose the ideal soft. Theoretically move a pixel in a 3d space on a flat screen is not a natural thing. Some people can do that more easily than others. Able to mentally move something before using the tools is an advantage. that is why there are talented graphic artists who are struggling to adapt to 3d soft. Beyond this, it is essential to have affinity with the GUI. At last you have the tools to choose yours software. The real questions is "what do you want to do?" and "what is the simplest and most convenient to do that?"

A little story (with my poor english):
before making 3d I was a sculptor. I do not need to rotate a 3d object in a screen to understand because i know what is a picture. there is primitive people in Africa who have never seen photos. When we show them a picture, they are unable to say what it represents. Even a face becomes an abstract form for them. They are sculptor but they never think a form as a "flat picture". finally it is not so strange: we are so accustomed to seeing images that we sometimes forget the reality.

The truth is if you developed your skill set using trueSpace then by adding software to your collection would be smarter
then replacing.

That's pretty much how I've been using truespace since I got it. Blender is an excellent companion tool for truespace, especially if you can't afford 3dcoat. Truespace makes up for Blender's lack of rendering grunt (and also adds many little tools), especially if you have vray and dribble. I don't like any of the open source rendering alternatives I've used, maybe when I get an i7 I'll have another look at them.

Everyone should have a look at Blender's new projection painting, it's excellent.

I think truespace is quickly going to become an underground app, but that doesn't bother me. It may actually increase the appeal of using it for me.

Theres a lot of reasons why you would choose a specific 3d application but 2 big reasons that go hand in hand are
ergonomics and what your used to use and second is speed.Many of the people here have the most training in Truespace
and therefore are fast in Truespace.
When it comes to modeling my workflow has steadily changed to 3 other applications basicaly because of even more speed.
But that doesnt rule out using Truespace for many things....
Its just much easier to just drag a piece of a model from the library onto a surface and position it there (component system).... or its much easier to cut holes in
a nurbs application rather then modeling that hole.
But we will see lots of applications evolving over time and its not going to get harder to create something.
We will get even more realistic render software etc.
Basically those are all just tools...... I am creating 3d not using tools.

I just found funny this rush to migrate to other 3d aps. Yes caligari is no more. Even if caligari still existed, what would that guarantee you in respect to truespace? That maybe some time after 1 year, half year or maybe even 2 years you will get a new version of truespace? Nothing else. Software products (I mean software products that are not open source) are released in big increments. You could not get a new version of truespace earlier than 2010. Maybe the only guaranty was that if bugs where found they would have been corrected through a patch or service pack. Caligari just disappeared but that doesn’t means that truespace just become obsolete over night. Give it at least 1 year to see what happens before becoming scared and run to other applications. You could not get a new version of truespace earlier than that anyway. In the meantime evolution of truespace dose not ends. It can evolve by modifications provided by the community and maybe it can evolve faster now that community is somehow forced to extend the application and not just wait for caligari to release new versions and features of truespace. Keep the skill you gained in truespace and keep faith that truespace will continue to evolve. If Microsoft will disappear tomorrow will you format your drive and install linux or whatever just because no one will be making new version of windows? The fact that truespace is not open source does not mean that community cannot change and add new features to truespace so just wait some time and see what happens.

ChMar wrote:I just found funny this rush to migrate to other 3d aps.

There are quite some people looking into alternatives right now but that doesnt lead to not using Truespace anymore...
I have been pointing out how to use other applications with Truespace and those that followed dont see any changes at all.
All applications share common file formats and most work well together......
Its just a slow transition from a Truespace user to a 3d market user....
Theres lots of good stuff around ! Its not religion...

People who get rid of Truespace now did not really use it seriously. It's the same for all soft. Those changing all the time tools do not achieve much in general. They do not have time to become expert. In one year the Truespace community will be smaller but better and we will use other tools with Truespace.

You could not get a new version of truespace earlier than 2010.

We haven't really had one since 2007. I don't count the bug fixes that turned truespace 7 alpha into truespace 7 beta.

Give it at least 1 year to see what happens before becoming scared and run to other applications.

I'm not sure where you've been, but this has been happening since 07 also. Probably longer, but I haven't been around that long.

The main problem with the "wait and see" attitude is that it's a good way to waste thousands of dollars. It takes at least a year to migrate properly to a major app. Probably three to five to master it, depending on how much down-time you have. The up front cost of an app isn't the only factor, the hundreds of hours learning to use it productively (that you could otherwise spend making money or having a life) is the real cost.

Truespace is dead. That's official. If you "wait and see" for another year in the vain hope it will return you're potentially multiplying your headaches, and expenses, down the track.

I'll also make the point that 7.5 was having major issues from the get-go, so really it's already been two years sticking with a very shaky app for some of us (especially vray users). It's really only the hard-core fans that put up with it this long. I still use truespace, probably will for years, but I started packing my parachute eighteen months ago, because I knew if I waited I may end up with no app and no spare time to learn a new one.

Luckily, I've already put the hard yards in and learned to use Shade, Blender, Hexagon and now Sketchup, so I really don't have to worry too much from here on (at least until these apps bite the dust ). I feel very sorry for those that put all their eggs in the Caligari basket, but there is always hope elsewhere.