United3dArtists Archive

I have Gamespace Lite, but need a full version of Gamespace as Truespace 7.6 and above won't install under ME; it's really old too. GSL, also won't save a model with more then 650 faces, so that's a problem for me too. If you have a copy laying around unused anymore I could really use Gamespace. You can send it to me at 10229 Sharp Drive, El Paso, Texas, 79924-3516. I could reimberse your postages cost if you want, But I plan to have Windows ME for quite some time and need something that can run on my old laptop. Thanks. Leroy. Gamespace, is pretty much abanonware now so I don't see any legality issues as far as Caligari is concerned. Don't know for sure though. What do you guy think?

Hey BNG.
I don't think 'abandonware' is synonymous with 'freeware'.
Can you use Model side and polygon reduction tools?

I know you are a fan of the Battlezone game and that it needs an old format for models. But ... considering all the effort needed to get old software and keep it going and use it ... maybe that effort would be better spent learning more modern software and finding a way to convert its output to the old format.

Copyrights and patents, in their modern form in US law, exist to for two purposes. Of course, private property should respected, promoted, and protected because it is good and an individual/business has a right to his property but the idea of these laws also promotes benefit for everyone. One part is to encourage creativity/inventive activity by protecting the creator's ability to benefit from it -- his control and ownership of it. The other is to eventually place writings (etc.)/inventions in the public domain so they don't eventually disappear or aren't kept secret forever (lest the competition get it). This is oversimplified but it is the basic idea.

Copyrights expire after some time, I think it is seventy years after the death of the author or maybe it is after the first date of publication. It is a long time. Then the material is public domain.

If it really works that way in the real world or needs modernization to fit the faster pace of today are different issues.

"Abandonware" is a mostly false concept promoted by anti-property activists. There may be some legitimate application of the concept but intellectual property remains owned until the copyright expires or the owner says it can be used.

Finis is on target here, and also keep in mind that GS is the intellectual property of MS (they did purchase GS also right?). I am not too sure I would want to mess around with their attorneys...

I know you seem committed to keeping your existing laptop and os, but I also agree with Finis, there is a time when letting go and moving on is a good thing... maybe now is a good time? Their are more free tools now on the market of professional quality than at any previous time. They do not cost anything and just require a commitment of time to learn.

I looked through my old stuff, I think I had sold my license for GS a long time back. Wasn't their a online validation process with that also?

rich

Then does anyone want to sell their licence to Gamespace? I can afford a reasonable price if that's doable, but I need if possible some version of Caligari that will run under Win ME as I'm stuck with it for the forseeable future. I avoid the hacked versions of Gamespace at all costs as this is unethical violation of who ever holds the copyrights to former Caligari products. I do a lot of modeling on this laptop. It's still functional and serves to model for Battlezone II with Gamespace Lite which I still love using, but I need to some how work around the poly limited imposed by the demo of Gamespace. I'd use Blender but even that is a problem due to it's odd user interface. Thanks anyways guys.

Hi BNG,
I have to agree with Rich there does come a time to let go particularly with operating systems, however I do have a copy of GS that we could come to some arrangement over,that said I dont know how we stand legaly over transfer of ownership anyone?

Jim

JimB wrote:Hi BNG,
I have to agree with Rich there does come a time to let go particularly with operating systems, however I do have a copy of GS that we could come to some arrangement over,that said I dont know how we stand legaly over transfer of ownership anyone?

Jim

What ever terms you wish are fine by me Jim. I'm pretty much financially stuck with this ME based laptop and don't see many other options for such a dated OS, and of course my need for something that will run under Windows ME. GSL rocks, but the poly limit really bums me out in terms of modeling stuff. I was real close to buying the downloadable version of Gamespace from Caligari's old site, but when I finally had the bucks to get it Caligari pulled the plug on that version. What complicated matters more is that they never offered it on CD either to my knowledge. Let me know what if anything we can work out if possible. Thanks, Leroy.

JimB wrote:Hi BNG,
I have to agree with Rich there does come a time to let go particularly with operating systems, however I do have a copy of GS that we could come to some arrangement over,that said I dont know how we stand legaly over transfer of ownership anyone?

Jim

There have been some huge court cases on the rights of a software purchaser to resell the license. The last big batch I remember was 2000 to 2002 timeframe. I have not seen anything on these decisions being appealed or overturned. I am not a lawyer but I did spend way too much time reading about this stuff. Do not take this information as the ultimate truth. Check with other people and if you are not convinced check with a lawyer.

Based on the last information I saw the EU and US both allow purchasers to sell their licenses provided the media and documentation transfer as well. Essentially there can be no lingering value in the sellers control or possession.

Electronic distribution and DRM systems used for games and other software circumvent this by controlling the distribution. For example, if you buy a game using STEAM then you cannot sell it to another STEAM community member because you agree to tie the license key to your account and that you understand that STEAM will not allow the transfer of the key etc.

Gamespace should be pretty straightforward transfer of property.

I remember one case where a guy bought some used software and the company tried to sue him when he resold it to another person. The court ruled that he had the right to sell it as he was not the original licence holder. I've purchased used video games and never had any issues with getting sued. I would imagine the same holds true for stores that sell used software. The issue mainly revolves around software piracy laws where people mass produce illegal copies for the purpose of profiting off these titles.

It is true that the bulk of the law is after software pirates. But a large IT corporation sued a client that had decommissioned a system and sold the component licenses to another company. That was the ground breaking case I remember from years ago.....

sometimes I think you need to be an oracle to sort this stuff out.

richlevy wrote:Finis is on target here, and also keep in mind that GS is the intellectual property of MS (they did purchase GS also right?). I am not too sure I would want to mess around with their attorneys...

I know you seem committed to keeping your existing laptop and os, but I also agree with Finis, there is a time when letting go and moving on is a good thing... maybe now is a good time? Their are more free tools now on the market of professional quality than at any previous time. They do not cost anything and just require a commitment of time to learn.

I looked through my old stuff, I think I had sold my license for GS a long time back. Wasn't their a online validation process with that also?

rich

Rich I remember that you sold your GS license a few years ago, can you remember what was involved in the process?
There is no online validation btw.

Somehow I don't think the transfer or giving of old software to another person is of major concern to most software companies. For instance, I gave one of my cousins a complete old HP PC system with all the original licenced software still intact and never had any legal issues with the transfer of it. As far as I know their still using it without any court challenges from Hewlett Packard. Microsoft, is far more concerned with profiteers as a posed to individuals trading or selling their licences to another person. Still, I acknowledge the fear factor that most of us feel when discussing such issues.

Jim, if it won't work without this validation then it's pointless to continue any further. I thought a serial number was the only requirement to activate the software? Let me know so we can all move on if it's not doable.

BNG wrote:Somehow I don't think the transfer or giving of old software to another person is of major concern to most software companies. For instance, I gave one of my cousins a complete old HP PC system with all the original licenced software still intact and never had any legal issues with the transfer of it. As far as I know their still using it without any court challenges from Hewlett Packard. Microsoft, is far more concerned with profiteers as a posed to individuals trading or selling their licences to another person. Still, I acknowledge the fear factor that most of us feel when discussing such issues.

Jim, if it won't work without this validation then it's pointless to continue any further. I thought a serial number was the only requirement to activate the software? Let me know so we can all move on if it's not doable.

"There is no online validation btw."

I think you misread it BNG.

GS files are individualy zipped and total 183 mb I can place them in my Skydrive so you can download them if you are still interested.
PM me for details.

Is it tranferable? If so then let me know if we can work something out Jim. Leroy.

Yes I'm still very interested as I said I'm stuck with Window ME for quite some time. I'm sort of squeezing every bit of life out of the old laptop as money is pretty tight now a days. Leroy.

BNG wrote:Is it tranferable? If so then let me know if we can work something out Jim. Leroy.

Yes I'm still very interested as I said I'm stuck with Window ME for quite some time. I'm sort of squeezing every bit of life out of the old laptop as money is pretty tight now a days. Leroy.

Is it tranferable?

In truth I do not know, I do know that Rich sold his GS license a few years back I dont think he had any problems. perhaps he will drop in and let us know how he went about it.

Leroy did you recieve my last PM?

JimB wrote:Leroy did you recieve my last PM?

I did Jim and everything seems fine with the GS files. Leroy.