United3dArtists Archive

I've been a long-time, if distant, supporter of trueSpace, and was sad to see it get Microsoft-borg'd and then shut down, but was glad that there's still a community (however small) that cares and supports it and the software is free now. However, I'm finding that the documentation for trueServe is...shall we say...lacking? I have gotten as far as setting up a server that the clients can connect to, and chat in the chat window, but...where's the space? Where's the collaborative modeling?

My goal is to use trueServe and trueSpace as a 3D collaborative version of OpenCanvas in a way, to allow people with 3D modeling talent to work collaboratively on models for a simulation project. I'd like two or more 3D artists to be able to work on a model in real time. I know trueServe can also be used for 3D meetings and interactive environment-type applications, but I'm right now interested in starting with collaborative modeling. Can anyone provide me with the missing sparks to get this underway?

Hi Dinosorceror.
To see the space in trueServe, you have to set one of the views, to a 3D view.
Or better, add a view, and set it to a 3D view.

Welcome to U3DA.

Do you already have the trueServe? If you want to create a server (to then clients connect) you shall have that. Also there is a good manual by Paul Cayenne, but I can't remember where I put it, maybe someone else has it, and it is pretty complete and should really help you.

Good Luck

Here is the manual if you don't already have it:
(trueServe Manual- 5.5 MB)
Some other threads that may have relevant info:
here
and also here.

Thanks for the manual link, but I've been through most of the manual and...how should I put it...it's barely legible. I had to read halfway into it just to get enough of the basic info for firing up the server. The server software is far from elegant, and the combo of inelegant server management and "barely there" documentation makes for unhappiness.

As to the suggestions to "just open up a 3D view," I did, and it didn't seem to matter. When the clients were connected, I could switch to the 3D view on the clients and the server and tinker, and neither seemed to be affected and still seemed to be running independently.

What I'd like to get, if possible, is for one of the people who've already set up a server that clients have successfully connected to and worked on content collaboratively to tell me the simple steps to get there. After taking wild guesses to fill in the huge gaps in the "manual" -- heck, in the very beginning it talks about opening up the server and starting it and logging in -- and then halfway into the manual, if you pay close attention, you just might find the server syntax and the user/pass you're supposed to use.

Don't get me wrong, I can only complain so much...I understand the company is now long dead, and the server software obviously wasn't even really ready for client consumption, just more of something that Caligari wanted to run themselves to rake in dough to rent out shared spaces...but still, I see for a fact that at least two or three people managed to either figure it out with the laughable documentation, or actually worked for Caligari and so don't need it perhaps, and I also realize that I haven't been much of a trueSpace user at all and so there may be something really stupid and simple keeping it from working, but...I'm telling you, I'm not a stupid man, and it's eluding me. I'm positive there's less than 10-15 steps you need to do to take a fresh install of trueServe and turn it into a basic system clients can connect to. But does the manual tell that? God, no.

I'll make you all a deal, too -- it seems that those who have managed to get trueServe running are basically home enthusiasts who are on PPPoE variable connections and I haven't seen evidence that a single person here still has a trueServe server up and running. I'll be happy to provide a stable trueServe platform for you guys to do whatever the heck you want on, IF I can get the proper instructions/documentation to get the damned thing running so I can use it for 3D artists to collaborate on my own project.

Well, I had a server running 24/7 for awhile, then moved cross country and have not had a chance to start it back up again. In addition, as a statement of fact, there has always been very little interest from the trueSpace user community in the use of trueServe, collaborative modelling, and shared spaces. That's not motivation to run and maintain a server.

I will take a look at the manual as soon as I can. I believe, that option #2 for setting up a basic shared space, is the one I've always used because it's more straightforward. I will post the page number in the manual for that option.

You did not mention whether you are attempting to access the server from a client outside your router (home network). If possible, try connecting from a client on your home network. That will rule out router issues. If you can connect from a local client, and add objects, perform object editing, etc. , but you cannot do the same from a remote client, chances are you need to configure the port-forwarding on your router.

I will have to clarify my statement about 'opening a 3D window': on the server later. For now, basically, you have a node for your space, on the server. You set one of the windows to that node; I believe you do that by clicking the orange square on the node. Then, change that to a 3d view. That probably sounds vague but unfortunately it's the best I can do until I can look at the server and manual again. Should not take me that long.

Page 10. Method 2.
Make sure "Authorize" is DESELECTED for your space. That way you don't have to enter a password. Also, anyone should be able to add and delete objects, and edit them in the space.
Make sure the first space you create, is created on the trueServe. Not from the client after you login.

Once you create the space on the server, you click on that orange square of your space (it is a node), in the Network view. That moves you into the space. Then, the upper right hand corner of that window says: 2D. Change that to 3D. When you do, you should see the scene/space.
I do not know what you have already tried; you may have tried this already.

1. I delete all spaces from trueserve.

2. In trueServe, I click and drag the Shared Space Tools icon into the Network view. The Shared Space Tools
dialog is displayed. The Space name is: TestSpace. Leave that alone. It's fine for now.

3. Note, the Net Properties dialog in the Network view. The FirstServerPort is set to: 1109. That's important to remember.

4. In the Shared Space Tools dialog, click the button: Create Shared Space. A new node titled: TestSpace appears in the Network view, and in the Space 3D view.

5. INFO ONLY: In the Network view, click the title of the newly created node. Then, click the Default tab of that node.
Note the port, in the expanded view of the node: 1109.

6. for local access, you will need to check your router, for local network IP's.
You will need to login to your router to access these settings. If you need help, please
post your router brand and model. There is a website that lists the default
username and password of a multitude of routers, so you can login to your router and change the port forwarding settings.
Here is the website:

http://www.routerpasswords.com"

BTW the trueserve manual describes trueserve, not network setup issues. It presumes you
already have knowledge of, or access to, network configuration issues. Yeah that sucks.
BooxieMalone posted a document here somewhere; I will try to find it. Probably in the OurSharedSpaces forum.

7. So how do you login to your router? Go to this website:

http://www.whatismyip.org"

to get your router's public ip address. You type that into your web browser's window.

At this point, you enter the default username and password to enter your router, and configure port forwarding.
On my router (LinkSys), the port forwarding settings are in the section: Applications and Gaming.
Basically, you enter the Application name, the start port address, end port address, Protocol to: BOTH (UDP and TCP).
Then, you enter the trueServe host computer's local IP address.
Also, you may have to select a checkbox next to the port, to Enable that port-forwarded item.
Then, save.
This process opens the specified UDP/TCP communication ports of the router, and forwards data packets
to the specified computer (local IP address).

To access the trueServe computer locally:
In my case, I type this into the address window, from trueSpace (not trueServe); this is the local IP address
of the trueServe host, and port of the space:

//192.168.1.102/1109

username: whatever you want
password: leave blank

That gets me into the space.
I add a cylinder, and I see it in both trueSpace and trueServe.

Now you can test logging into trueServe remotely.

I did this successfully. Again, added a cylinder, moved it around, in trueSpace.
I saw it move both in truespace and trueserve.

Those are the basics to get your trueServe running. Did that help?
Did it work? Do you have any other questions? We're here to help
so please ask questions.

Holy smokes...I really appreciate all the detailed info after my whining for such. I've only skimmed it for now, but I'm going to print out the thread and give it a try on the lab I have set up today, and then if it works, I'll get it going on the live environment.

It is odd to me that there does seem to be such a...well, not even a "meh" attitude towards real-time collaboration, just a non-attitude. Almost makes me want to develop a multi-user plugin for Blender.

I will also mention that my lab does not involve any firewalls, so I am removing that factor from the equation, if for nothing else but convenience. However, I do believe I have all the proper port forwarding set up on the live environment and I can connect to it with clients as I mentioned in my original post for that oh so glorious ability to text chat. I should mention that although I'm pretty n00bie when it comes to trueSpace, I'm a networking expert, do it for a living.

So once again, thanks for all that advice...printing it out now and I'll let you know if I need any further help, and let you know how it works out.

Excellent; good to know!
I think, a major part of the lack of interest, is due to trueSpace being,
a 'beta' product, with numerous bugs and incomplete tools.
A number of users were very disappointed that time was spent on
trueServe type technology, as opposed to modelling and animation tools.
There are some users that like it, but not too many.

I can try to setup my FrooServe on another machine. If you want, you
could login and have a look around. I'll let you know when it is setup.

Have a great weekend!

Well, I...think I had success? One thing that's really killing me is the terrible controls and user interface...it's like learning a different language. Thank God I'm using a VM for the server so I can just restore to snapshots, because I can't even figure out how to get back dialog boxes and windows that I closed!

Can someone now tell me if there's a function or menu somewhere to just "restore the default views back to the way you started?" I actually went whole-hog the other way and closed absolutely every window I could in trueServe, and I could not find hardly any way to bring any of them back.

But anyway, here's where things stand now: I do believe I was one click away from getting something working before I asked you all for help. I had gotten as far as she Shared Space Tools dialog box, and had clicked to Create Shared Space, but didn't realize it had created a different one from the first one, and that it spawned that other window in the view. I have clicked the orange box and looked at the whole view, but when I click it to "go into it" I don't get the option for a 3D view on the server itself. However, I connected from a trueSpace client and it did seem to be updating objects I placed there...I do believe I was actually tinkering with a shared space effectively from the client. However, as I mention, I'm really struggling with the controls of the UI of both trueSpace and trueServe...they're far from intuitive.

So...I think if someone can tell me the magic process to restore all the views and windows and whatnot to the default original setup, I can probably muddle my way through and get a shared space online for real this weekend.

I am really starting to wonder, though...if this is all really worth it. This software may have died for a reason. Then I get to thinking, though...OpenCanvas is just as bad with regards to flakiness and terrible UI...and yet artists just love to put up with it to collaborate on 2D drawings real-time. I'm kinda hoping I can get the same thing going with 3D with this similar piece of abandonware.

hey man.
Ok; when you click the orange square (OS ) you can see the contents of the space. You see the nodes of the graph. If you add a cube, you should see a node called, creatively, Cube.

In the default window configuration (which I'll cover in a sec), if you look at the 'Space' window, which is the lower window, check the upper right hand corner of that window. It will say, 2D. That means, you are looking at the 2D view of the space. This 2D view is also known as, the LE (Link Editor) view.
Click and drag down on that button. You can switch to 3D view. That is the 3D view of your space.

If you created another space, it will probably share the name of the first space, with a comma and a number after; like: TestSpace, 1. That space uses a port, one above the first. So if TestSpace uses port 1109, then TestSpace, 1 uses port 1110.

If you want to view the 3D view of TestSpace, 1, you should be able to enter the node, and switch the view from 2D to 3D. To do this, from trueSpace, you login to that space's port. In this case, 1110. (The cool thing is, you can link spaces together using widgets, and other things).

Now. To restore the windows: the fastest way is to delete the default.ctx file. The price to pay here is, you will have to recreate your space. So, to do this, shut down trueserve. Click Start, then highlight the trueserve executable, right click it, go to Properties, then select: Find Target. That gets you to the folder where trueserve.exe and the default.ctx file is located.

Delete that ctx file, then restart trueserve. On startup, the default.ctx file will be recreated, and you will have your default window configuration restored.

Doh BTW...
If you want to switch to the 3d view, as I was mentioning above, in the upper right corner of that TestSpace window, are BOTH: the word: 2D, and the orange triangle.
You click and drag the 2D part; and select 3D from the dropdown box.

sorry bout that!

BTW ... FrooServe is up if you want to test; address is:

//frooserve.dyndns.org/1109

username: whatever you want
password: not required

Hi Dinosorceror , i find this great that you are trying to
set it up.when you get there we need your address
have fun Ralph

HI Dinosorceror, if you still have probs with setting it up
log into pugspace and i will tell you how to do it.
i set mine up in less than 5 mins
hope to see you Ralph
PS online till 8 tonight today sunday