United3dArtists Archive

spacekdet · Post by **spacekdet** » 21 Jan 2012, 20:30

Could this be another milestone?
(Albeit a sad one?)

I doff my cap, I tip my glass, I wipe my eye.

clintonman · Post by **clintonman** » 21 Jan 2012, 21:29

No more caligari website. I guess microsoft finally got around to cleaning up the last of the loose ends.

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 21 Jan 2012, 23:03

Oh.. that's sad...

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 22 Jan 2012, 02:53

I was actually surprised it was up for this long. At least these three links still work.

vi ... f=4&t=1202"

Caligari, (Amiga)
trueSpace 2 (PC)
trueSpace 3
trueSpace 4.3
trueSpace 7 VRay

It was fun...

And a tribute to some of the plug-ins that made trueSpace more enjoyable.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 22 Jan 2012, 03:27

My tribute to Roman:

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 22 Jan 2012, 09:05

I still don't understand why they don't release the code for 7.6 to the community. Especially considering it was our money that they (......must......control......my contempt................damn it's hard......) "invested" (......ahhhhhh.....) to make the buggy thing in the first place.

I'm also sure that Caligari could have released 6.6 as a free app as well if they'd tried harder to negotiate with third parties, or just given it to Lightworks to play with. Surely something could have been worked out, especially considering it was an old app and would have been a threat to no one.

I will never be able to comprehend it. It's still by far and away the most (........calm........ blue....... oceans........) "disappointing" treatment I have ever come across as a (rabid) digital consumer.

All that said, 6.6+ is still my favorite cg toy, even if I don't have time to do much with it these days. It's also nice that this place still exists (even though I don't come around all that much, try to avoid the internet if I can help myself), so thanks to everyone who keeps this site running.

------

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 22 Jan 2012, 18:05

Love the video, watch his eyes as he looks down to read the script.
Is there a Echo in the video or is it just my surround sound...LOL
It is sad but we all knew it would happen it was just a matter of time.
To every good thing there comes and end and only wish it had not ended so soon.
I still use and will continue to use TS until I can find something else I feel comfortable with.

Dragneye · Post by **Dragneye** » 23 Jan 2012, 05:38

A toast for the official end.

A toast to all of You, that in the past and to this day, continue your faith, your efforts, and the wonderful community you have all fostered, nurtured and continue to do so.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 23 Jan 2012, 10:43

oh, wow :(

btw. nice video. I can hear his slovakian accent in english :D

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 23 Jan 2012, 13:33

Cheers guys!

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 23 Jan 2012, 17:06

We could sign a petition to get the sourcecode or let Microsoft release the SDk as opensource. I found this, it already has 97. Not sure it would work, but sure.. what the hell. I will try look into seeing if it is possible to get the source code from them, then oneday, if I get it, will release it. Where can I find a microsoft representative?!

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/opentruespace/

An idea in a forum:
http://blenderartists.org/forum/archive ... 59107.html

v3rd3 · Post by **v3rd3** » 23 Jan 2012, 22:53

Open source won't happen... there is embedded code for the Lightworks renderer and I have no doubt there is something that MS actually used.

Unless those key pieces were removed MS would not consider releasing the source. Extracting the key pieces would cost a sizeable amount and MS are not likely to invest.

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 24 Jan 2012, 00:26

Oh that sucks. Nothing in life is easy eh? I'll drop them a call and see what they say. I'd better start focusing on getting rich and make my own version of TS with direct X11...

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 24 Jan 2012, 00:46

From the past to the present something to remember Caligari by.
The image name is the year that these image were taken from.
I used the way back machine to capture past years of the web site.

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 24 Jan 2012, 00:48

And more!

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 24 Jan 2012, 00:49

And More!

froo · Post by **froo** » 25 Jan 2012, 20:35

Yeah those screenshots bring back memories Jeff; back when Caligari was in business.
Regarding the petition, I don't think 100 signatures is going to motivate Microsoft to dedicate resources to cleaning up and packaging the source code. Besides, it was going to require some pretty serious overhaul from the original developers (they know the code far better than we do).

Assume for the moment that there were no 3rd party code/libraries in the package. And let's suppose the code was released. Then, there would be many many downloads, then silence. Why? Because no one would have a clue where to start, where to improve, etc. It is very hard to get a dedicated group of knowledgeable people from around the globe to commit to development. So releasing the source code would be irrelevant anyway.

I tried to do some things but apparently they didn't work out as well as I'd hoped (OBJ package, NURBS tool for example). I'm a little disappointed with those. My hope was to help keep tS going but those apparently didn't help. That's ok.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 25 Jan 2012, 21:30

Instead of wanting TS released to open source why not start your own thing to do an open source project to make something like TS. What most of us like about TS vs. other programs is the user interface. You wouldn't need to duplicate but instead it to use the concepts of TS's UI. For the guts you would need to connect existing free stuff (Kerkythea, Yafaray, Blender) and use free code and known methods to do things (everyone remembers Numerical Recipes in C right?)

Of course, joining an existing project like Blender and working to make TS-like options or UI for it would be an option. Better, find one that is starting and then you could contribute to and influence it to have TS's good points.

The really ambitious could consider commercial projects since we all know that 3D'ers long for easy to use software with plenty of power. Get investors, techies, managers and make a Maya/3DMax/Modo with TS like interface and ideas.

The point is that it would probably be less difficult to do a project from scratch than to start with TS's code due the reasons others have already stated.

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 25 Jan 2012, 21:49

Good idea!!! I hope to start a product based on blender (maybe) with those ideas in the next 5 years. I am starting a studio right now, but hopefully we will be the best in Colombia and later SA. I would love the luxery to make something with the concepts of TS.
Oh, I think the lightworks renderengine is a plugin to the MS. I deleted it once and didn't have lightworks!!!!

Primary concepts to develop:
1. Collaborative 3D spaces and workshops via internet or LAN
2. Realtime GPU based/DirectX(11) based lighting, shaders and other aesthetics (maybe AO and raytracing and tesselation) with optional external renderers
3. true IK rigs with nail based constraints
4. easy to use developer node based scripting and development
5. easy hand's-on simplified interface

Secondary concepts to include:
4. Powerful/simple polygon modelling tools
5. Sculpting
6. Physics Simulation
7. Nurbs and curves
8. Dynamic animation with morphs and audio syncing
9. Dynamic hair and fur
10. Softbodies

I have a friend who wants to develop the rig system of Blender. I told him, as an animator, to stop the chain based system and just go all out with skelatons and true IK with nails and constraints. But I think he needs a bit more encouagement and knowledge and I need to learn Blender to help him.

But within 5 years... hope to atleast start something!

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 25 Jan 2012, 22:01

Many thought for years that the 3d community is expanding but it isnt !
Same with photography and filming .. the market is NOT expanding.....
Much of what once used to be serious photo gear.. well now the iphones take over....
There are enough products on the market already... more then the people pay for in the end.....
They didnt stop Truespace because it was so popular.... there ares still some people who use
it and thats good....... you can also use icons that you made by yourself or from Truespace in other
applications.... Silo for instance lets you do that.....
Peter

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 25 Jan 2012, 22:24

There is always room for new software. Many large industries (Weta Digital, Dreamworks, Pixar, Light and Magic, Universal Studios, etc) develop their own software specifically for their own pipelines and productions (if it wasn't for Avatar, we wouldn't be using Mari, if it wasn't for Toy Story we wouldn't be using raytracing algorithms, etc). My friends in NZ who have worked for Weta Digital tell me programmers are more in demand over artists and animators! Why? Because todays software and hardware is never good enough for the artist and their dreams, not just the market.
The art of games, movies and other products is what drives innovation with software and hardware. If it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have what we have today, from HD screens to photoshop to consoles to any other product based on bits turned into images and pixles. There is room for more cooler artisticly empowering software I'm sure. Be it in-house or commercial.
The game industry is growing, the film industry waning mainly in first world.. but i'm sure it will bounce. In other worlds like Latin America and Asia and not even to mention the Middleeast are just STARTING with their market, and growing fast! So there is still much room to grow with better tools.

I don't see why it's a bad idea to try develop a niche of the industry.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 25 Jan 2012, 22:33

So why did Roman sell the company ?

Weta and Sony have lots of moey to burn !

Peter

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 26 Jan 2012, 02:52

Rayman makes good points. My statements weren't encouragement that there is room for yet another 3D program but meant that instead of whining that someone won't give you their property why don't you do something to create what you want? The generous and talented people here who make plugins, scripts, etc. for TS are doing that as much as they can.

Given the current state of 3D the realistic strategy is to find what you want. There are 3D programs that are easy, or less difficult, to learn and use.

I think selling TS was not based on a lack of demand. It had a niche market of hobbyists. I think, guess really, that Roman's decision to go into collaborative environments and develop the workspace didn't meet the demands of that niche and that created a financial disaster which left him no choice but bankruptcy or selling the company.

I like easy but I don't mind putting in the time and effort if the reward is potentially enough. Hum, must find time to continue exploring Messiah Studio.

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 26 Jan 2012, 05:16

I agree with trying to start doing or developing your own thing instead of waiting for someone else to do it. It's the adult thing to do. That's why I would love to.
But I do think building on someone else's work takes a lot of the groundwork away thus making life easier, I must admit.

In the meantime, I am making my own pipelines with various software of choice, and later will work with others to create newer pipelines to be a head of the game. So I'll keep you guys posted as times goes on.

And yeah, I think Roman had to kettle ship cause financially things looked dire. This was 2009, just before the first pains of recession. One would want to save his arse from that situation, and it may have been a hope that a larger company would save it so... which it didn't cause it too had to cut back..

DanX · Post by **DanX** » 25 Feb 2012, 04:04

Sad stuff.

but on a good note at least for now I guess you can still get Truespace at c-net.

http://download.cnet.com/TrueSpace/3001 ... 63a2&dlm=0

Me I have already archived everything I had from TS3.3 till the end but I will now Zip it all up and place it on an old dusty hard drive in the back that may never be opened again.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 25 Feb 2012, 20:44

I'm not planning on storing my trueSpace. It will be used as long as the current Operating System allows.

TrueSpace is a part of my Artistic being.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 18 Sep 2012, 16:32

Steinie wrote:My tribute to Roman:

https://plus.google.com/115728625867430055457/photos"

Any name from his circle of friends sound familiar?

spacekdet · Post by **spacekdet** » 18 Sep 2012, 19:38

I recognize HAL.

trueBlue · Post by **trueBlue** » 19 Sep 2012, 16:05

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Where+is+Roman+Ormandy" ?

Steinie wrote:
Steinie wrote:Any name from his circle of friends sound familiar?

splinters · Post by **splinters** » 23 Sep 2012, 12:43

Sad indeed, a lot of my work was invested in that site. A lot of links on my site now go to dead ends.

tS7.6 remains my software of choice. Sure, there are far more advanced and up to date programs now but I dont need them.
I still draw with the pencils they have made for decades and paint with a brush despite all the techy pens and digital replacements.
When software makes pretty picture...it works. Simple.

Dribble gives me cartoony fur that suits my style and tS still runs (and renders) like a dream on my macbook.

Overall, I am happy. Those who feel tS isnt offering them enough should first ask if their own skills need developing rather than the software. A look at some of the work recently produced with tS is comparable with higher end packages even if it doesnt have high end clay sculpting features or fluid dynamics.

So, sad...but also uplifting that you can still use the software for free.

Imagine if it required an online verification each time you ran it....then we would be stuffed.

splinters · Post by **splinters** » 23 Sep 2012, 12:58

I see Roman has left Microsoft too.

Any idea what embody corp is all about, his new venture as an entrepeneur?

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 23 Sep 2012, 13:50

Splinters, "I see Roman has left Microsoft too.
Any idea what embody corp is all about, his new venture as an entrepeneur?"

I was thinking the same thing. I researched "Embody Corp" earlier but didn't find much. You know he names things for a reason...

Embody:
"Be an expression of or give a tangible or visible form to (an idea, quality, or feeling)
Provide (a spirit) with a physical form."

If I had a guess it would be a graphic based product for handheld devices.
Nice seeing you around again, Splinters!

splinters · Post by **splinters** » 23 Sep 2012, 14:27

Busy, busy Steinie. School life as a faculty manager takes its toll on your free time. I mod a forum as well and hardly have time to work on my own stuff anymore.
Keep meaning to pop in and post but just keep forgetting. Always good to chat with the old boys.

Mmm, handheld device you say...wonder if he needs a designer...

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 23 Sep 2012, 15:08

I found this not much help .
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roman-ormandy/4/789/20"

froo · Post by **froo** » 23 Sep 2012, 16:02

yeah it is most likely related to social networking, and the 3d environment. Maybe realistic avatars in a 'facebook' type setting, say? I am just conjecturing. But it sounds like that is Roman's passion.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 23 Sep 2012, 17:48

For fun, a little private eye work.

The secretary of state of a state keeps corporation records. Roman's linked in page says he's in California. California secretary of state website has a business search feature as do most.

Found it searching for Embody Corp but you can see it using their entity number C3448893. Filed 01/27/2012.
California secretary of state business search: http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/cbs.aspx

The business address given there is this office building: http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16377863 ... lendale-CA

I didn't find the nature of the business.

P.S. Hi Splinters! Good to hear from you.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 23 Sep 2012, 17:59

To all my fellow Super Sleuths

His wife (BIBIANA ORMANDY) filed.

State of Record: CA
State Reference ID: 03448893
File Date: Friday, January 27, 2012
Active: True
Filing Type: Statement & Designation By Foreign Corporation <--------Interesting!!!

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 23 Sep 2012, 18:10

The jurisdiction is Delaware so that is the state where the company was formed -- it's home. "Foreign" to California means the corporation is from another state but has filed to do business as a corporation in California.

Delaware records show an Embody Corp but its agent is another company. Some of the records you can get for a fee probably show the type of business to be done.

Hmm, why not Nevada with low (no?) corporate taxes and business friendly laws.

spacekdet · Post by **spacekdet** » 23 Sep 2012, 18:26

But why Delaware?

(Hint: It's not because it's sort of near Steinie)

MikeNTX · Post by **MikeNTX** » 25 Jun 2015, 02:47

I know I seem late to the party here. I was a very dedicated trueSpace user since tS4 and always updated to a new version as soon as it came out. Like others in this thread I took it very personal when Roman sold Caligari to M$. I was never mad at him for it. Maybe business was down or barely getting by. Or he had kids that would soon be going off to college. But I took it so hard I went from almost a daily working in 3D art and projects to pretty much stopped altogether. I had centered everything I did around using tS.

I was just recently looking for some images I did and when going though all my work I realized how much fun I had and wanted to get back into it. I did have questions about Caligari and Roman that maybe some can answer here. I always wondered how big of a shop was Caligari? Was it just him doing all the coding or did he have 1-2 others working with him? Has anyone ever talked to Roman, exchange emails since M$ bought his company or since he left M$? Is he even open to hearing from trueSpace users?

spacekdet · Post by **spacekdet** » 26 Jun 2015, 01:12

Here's one way to find out....

Let's drink a toast...

Let's drink a toast...

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