United3dArtists Archive

Meki · Post by **Meki** » 30 May 2010, 18:29

http://www.refractivesoftware.com/index.php"

Check it out. There is a demo to try it. I bought it a day before the 50% discount week so I'm a little gutted. Don't want anyone else to miss out on a fantastic deal. Well worth the look!

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 30 May 2010, 21:03

Fantastic but i have not cuda on my old pc to test it. it would be interesting to see some test by members here. I follow this project...

Emmanuel · Post by **Emmanuel** » 31 May 2010, 07:25

That offer sounds appealing !

I downloaded the demo and want to try it but... there is no Import command in the interface and nothing happens if I drag/drop some OBJ objects into it.
A left-clic in their "LE" allows to load a mesh, but nothing shows up in the 3D window.

No manual nor tutorial comes with the demo to help...

Cayenne · Post by **Cayenne** » 31 May 2010, 08:15

there looks to be an overview video on this page which should help and show how to import your objects :

http://www.refractivesoftware.com/videos.html"

I havent installed it yet but will give it a try later today or tomorrow as i was keeping an eye on this render engine previously.

regards
Paul

Emmanuel · Post by **Emmanuel** » 31 May 2010, 10:01

Thank you Paul.
Using the first video tutorial, I could load and display some simple meshes. But any architecture scene with an average number of objects simply make Octane to crash. Even the demo scenes from their download page lead to crash at import.

I think 49 euros is too much for an early beta work in progress

nigec · Post by **nigec** » 31 May 2010, 17:22

I think they maybe panicing a bit, Indigo has a very nice looking gpu/cpu hybrid in development, so will Thea in the coming months.
I had the same thing as you Emmanuel with it crashing, I doubt I'd get it anyway, I own Thea and it does everything I need
Indigo can already handle SSS and scary big scenes, ok its not going to be as quick as a full GPU app but the material system is a lot easier to develop which seems to be the thing Octaine is behind on

Meki · Post by **Meki** » 31 May 2010, 22:47

Here is a few test renders on the basic settings that took 5 mins. I don't know how to use it yet so I can't show you what it can do, but there are plenty of renders on the site. Make sure you have cuda 3 drivers and the latest nvida video drivers as well. At the moment you can only load one obj at a time, so if you want more you need to put all your models in the same obj. There will be updates that allow for collada files. I'm impressed with the quality and ease of use so far.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 01 Jun 2010, 01:19

Meki wrote: I'm impressed with the quality and ease of use so far.

I´m definitly not that impressed. for what I need it doesnt have anything but the basic render output that
you would want for simple product renders. but if you need more then that your going to be disapointed.
Vue 8 infinite rendered the tie in 5 seconds with radiosity and the stormtrooper in 10 seconds with radiosity all at 600 x 800 px.
But if you use 7000 ties in clouds (volumetric) and an armee of stormtroopers around 7000 of them all with enviroment and fog and clouds...
Vue did the scene in around 14 minutes.......
One stormtrooper has 100000 polygons.. !

You can even instance a walkcycle of it that many times or a few walkcycles........
Peter

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 01 Jun 2010, 07:16

iam not supporting CUDA... iam looking forward some nice renderer using OpenCL.

Meki · Post by **Meki** » 01 Jun 2010, 10:46

Those are some nice renders Rayman. Im sure when I can aford $895 ill look in to getting a better render program. Obviously there are many different render programs out there and octaine is still in beta so not all its features are implamented. I just posted it for anyone who was interested.

nigec · Post by **nigec** » 01 Jun 2010, 11:28

is there a commercial renderer that can do effectswise what Vue can in such a short space of time?
The Thea guys held off on GPU because it is still to young and the core programming is constantly changing, this probably why Octaine is stuck in this limbo where its not progressing very fast, and sh*t loads of pressure to get it done, it went open beta way to early and it shows

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 01 Jun 2010, 11:34

Meki wrote:Those are some nice renders Rayman. Im sure when I can aford $895 ill look in to getting a better render program. Obviously there are many different render programs out there and octaine is still in beta so not all its features are implamented. I just posted it for anyone who was interested.

I´m not certain where you get the information from that one has to shell out $895 to get a decent render engine.
Vue Esprit can be get for $ 199....... Kerythea is free and Thea is around same price as Esprit.....
The problem I see in Octaine is that while being very fast your artistically limited..... you dont have the same amount of possibilities yet.
but its good for fast visualisations...
But the technology is rapidly growing and I´m keeping an eye on it.The next generation will be some very serious piece of kit... and will
let you render animations in a fraction of the time that conventional cpu based soft can do.....
Peter

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 01 Jun 2010, 11:43

Don't forget it is not a real time render. It is an hybrid between real time and classic render. The interest is the software render the final image from a classic real time render to a final render by different step alone and stop the render when you move or change the scene, then it continue the render. That remember me some soft to draw fractals. By this way, more your gpu are good more you can work with an enhanced quality. you can try different setting (cam, text, light) without the need to wait to render a photorealistic image. This kind of software need a very good gpu (gtx 480 or more

) to have the benefit of the features.
Also, the example on the site of octane are awesome but it is only marketing: they need a lot of work for the modeling and texture to have this quality. And this work is not made with octane but by artists and other soft. I think this render engine can be a good tool for the soft who have the plugins. As an external render engine, it have less interest because if you want to change something on the scene, you need to return to your soft, edit the scene and export again to octane. You never work with this way: "modeling ---> texturing ---> rendering" but like this: "modeling, rendering, texturing, rendering, lighting, rendering, modeling, etc..."
It is why i prefer an integrated render engine like lightwork, Vray in TS or many other render engine directly integrated in a software (vue, max, etc...). Octane as an integrated render engine will be a good tool. The only problem is we need a kind of hardware (cuda) and we don't choose other thing. All you work depend of the futur of another companie (like TS with Microsoft). nobody don't know how will be the hardware in a few year...

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 01 Jun 2010, 12:04

marcel wrote: nobody don't know how will be the hardware in a few year...

Yup thats the reason why I stick to my trusted workflow.......
I dont want to experiment that much.What I have works very well ... Does not limit myself artistically in any way....
and works with what computer I have right now! A very good and valid point Marcel.
I want to get something out of what I have right now.
You probably spend $49 on the "beta" software right now and $ 2000 on hardware to work it(well).

And those expenses are not future - proof.....

Peter

nigec · Post by **nigec** » 01 Jun 2010, 19:11

I agree

Check out there two scenes, one vehicle and a displaced plane
http://www.thearender.com/forum/viewtop ... 83&start=0"

Meki · Post by **Meki** » 02 Jun 2010, 13:45

Just in case anyone was interested I'm using a GeForce GTS 250 1GB (£100)and octane works well. I don't think you need the fastest video card onthe market to get this to work, but I guess it would improve speeds. It does have a device manager within octane where you can choose what video cards you have installed, to use. This means you could have a dedicated card/s to to your rendering with and use the other to keep your system running and do other stuff at the same time. I haven't compared the renders with other rendering programs for speed and quality, you can judge for yourselves.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 02 Jun 2010, 18:42

It would be interesting to show what you can render from a truespace scene, how work the import, how is the compatiblility, etc...
New soft is always interesting to discover. My video card is not compatible with octane, i can't test it and what i see on their website seem too beautifull to be real. The best is to test with "normal" people and "normal" hardware to have a "normal" idea of what we can real do. I do not trust marketing.

Meki · Post by **Meki** » 02 Jun 2010, 19:46

That is a good idea marcel have you got any scenes you would like to see rendered? If so I'll do it for you and post the results. At the moment it only takes one obj at a time so if you want a big scene it needs all to be one object.

nigec · Post by **nigec** » 02 Jun 2010, 20:01

I agree with you there Marcel, while I was beta testing Thea I was up against guys with custom build machines designed for modeling and rendering, plus their raw talent these guys did it for a living, I gave up trying to render pretty pictures and focused on trying to break Thea instead.

If you look around a lot of the commercial render systems have a scene to torture the software, I have a Maxwell GI buster if you want to give it a try

nigec · Post by **nigec** » 02 Jun 2010, 21:00

here's the scene in obj format
the idea is you add a camera in the scene pointing at the far wall and mat white shaders, using only sun and physical sky render the scene and see how long it takes you can alter render setting but not gamma correction and other color corrections, or camera shutter speed etc
the aim is to get the best possible render in the shortest time..
then add SSS and other difficult shaders to the tea pot

tylerzambori · Post by **tylerzambori** » 02 Jun 2010, 23:16

Well, I have it, and am hoping for the best. There is no
hardware or software that will always be future proof, right now.

Meki · Post by **Meki** » 04 Jun 2010, 15:50

Well there is 6 hours left for the deal. Here are some renders of the scene nigec posted Im not sure what they are supposed to look like, hopfully I did the right thing. I'll try and do some more if I have time. Whenever you render there isn't a time limit, you just stop it when you are happy with the result. I did let the directlighting one go on for 1hour 20 mins and there wasn't a difference between that and the 40 mins one. The program only used 200mb of system memory and about 30% cpu, only about 30mb of graphics card memory but all of its processing power. So as I only have 1 card it takes up the computer for the duration. However it does have a pause button so anytime I like I can pause the render. It would be handy to have a second card but my rig won't fit another.

nigec · Post by **nigec** » 04 Jun 2010, 16:55

cool.. I'll try with Thea shortly, my XP partition decided it wanted to commit sucide, so the only Thea I have on Vista is an old beta that the license has run out on :/

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 06 Jun 2010, 01:22

The open hostility towards any renderer that isn't Thea or Vue is ruining this forum imo.

While I agree that CPU rendering is far from over, the trolling in these threads is becoming ridiculous. It's an issue for another thread, if at all, this one was merely a post about a current sale.

nigec · Post by **nigec** » 06 Jun 2010, 14:49

I dunno, I think any bias is directed in Vray's favour within the community, the others are just available options, I've seen more user commercial viable work in Thea than in Octaine.

Actually Meki's renders of the scene I posted are a lot better than I saw done with Fry and Maxwell, up to now its better than what I can do in Thea, but I'm using a pissy slow PC, so hats off to yeah lol

My arguement is really Octaine is no where near done at this moment in time, and battling with new tech, limited badly to the machines it can be used on, Thea and any other commercial renderer will work on anything within reason.
Then again I guess you can argue GPU renderers will come more cost effective if you do animation, less need for huge render farms etc
OK I am bias in favour of Thea but I used KT for a long time and ended up as a tester

v3rd3 · Post by **v3rd3** » 06 Jun 2010, 20:47

@benji, I don't really see anything I would call "open hostility" anywhere here.

I do see people presenting their opinions and defending them which I think is part of a healthy debate on rendering tools as well as anything else.

One thing we all need to keep in mind is that sometimes the language used appears to be stronger than necessary but the writing in many of these cases is from individuals using English as a second language. The intent of these posts is to emphasize a point or to ensure a clear message within the context of how these folks use language. I ran into this issue often working in a multilingual environment and had to spend time repairing some relationships that were unnecessarily damaged. Ultimately we need to focus on the message and I haven't seen anyone here (except one or two that have been booted) with a hostile bone in their system.

On the subject of Octaine... I just can't afford to pick it up right now. It does look interesting but I promised my wife to stop collecting software cuz it's cool...

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 06 Jun 2010, 21:04

Benji wrote:The open hostility towards any renderer that isn't Thea or Vue is ruining this forum imo.

While I agree that CPU rendering is far from over, the trolling in these threads is becoming ridiculous. It's an issue for another thread, if at all, this one was merely a post about a current sale.

Why should there be any hostility against any rendere engine at all ?
Maxwell, Kerythea, Thea , Vue and Vray just happen to be the only ones to be standalone and the Truespace user dont have that many options
apart from lightworks and virtuallight and Yafaray.and Dribble.......
There´s not that many people who make plugins anymore so there´s no choice anymore anyways.
The gpu based software is limited in what it can do but is awsome in speed thats all and it needs good hardware.......
There´s a lot of good render engines and good software with render engines......... Modo is great ... Lightwave has a great render engine
so is Pixar Renderman way on top........

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 07 Jun 2010, 00:26

epic

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 07 Jun 2010, 07:25

Benji wrote:epic

epic ?

http://www.refractivesoftware.com/forum ... f=5&t=1944"

Tesla 1060 is around $1100 the C2070 will be around $4K

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 07 Jun 2010, 08:29

Okay, for those who don't get it, please replace my last post with the following:

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 07 Jun 2010, 08:36

Benji wrote:Okay, for those who don't get it, please replace my last post with the following:

Yup $49 for the software and $ 1000 for the hardware ....... thats

Benji · Post by **Benji** » 07 Jun 2010, 09:42

Okay Rayman, go to the cgsociety thread regarding the Octane sale and post this garbage.....

Thought not.

So why do it here? Surely they need trolls on the Vue and Thea forums as badly as this one does............

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 07 Jun 2010, 11:33

The original post in this thread was:

"Check it out. There is a demo to try it. I bought it a day before the 50% discount week so I'm a little gutted. Don't want anyone else to miss out on a fantastic deal. Well worth the look!"

Why not just stick to the subject and just respond to what Meki had posted.
Start another thread if you feel Rendering Engine Wars is necessary.

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