United3dArtists Archive

What version of direct x should one use with truespace? I have a nvidia 260 graphics card, 6gb ram and an intel i7 processor. Should I maybe operate in open gl?

it doesnt matter, because DX is backwards compatible. So install just the newest.

ps. modeler is dx7 based and workspace is dx9 based.

An even more specific answer...workSpace requires DX9 "C"
Other users have had problems in the past using older DX9 versions.

I don't know what happened but I can no longer use the DX mode in tS without freezing. I think it happened since I updated my Ati graphic drivers....I am on Win 7 64bit.

For the last 2 1/2 years I can't use DX with Vista, after 10 mins the view freeze, it seems to be an overlay problem as the actual view is active underneath Never found a solution over at the cali forum, in the end I dual booted XP

nigec wrote:For the last 2 1/2 years I can't use DX with Vista, after 10 mins the view freeze, it seems to be an overlay problem as the actual view is active underneath

Image1.jpg

Never found a solution over at the cali forum, in the end I dual booted XP

Does anyone know if this problem also happen in Windows 7?
Because we all need to move to 7 eventually and it wouldn't be funny to have to drop TS just because off that...

i use modeler in a layout where is a main window and a little extra window is at a corner. I experience this aswell. I have to switch to small view and then go back to big one to refresh it (and vice versa).

I have win7 professional 32bit at work.

bitkar wrote:i use modeler in a layout where is a main window and a little extra window is at a corner. I experience this aswell. I have to switch to small view and then go back to big one to refresh it (and vice versa).

I have win7 professional 32bit at work.

So our hope is that Wine will work for Truespace eventually and that we can migrate from Windows then?

what I found that works for the refresh is to just click on the "wireframe" icon (or switch between different modes).

Kurt

You can also refresh with one click on the "unhide all objects" icon or on the "espace" icon (the sparrow). No need to switch. I think it is the easiest. It work for me with vista 32 bits.

With the keyboard i click 2 time on the tab button then one time on the space bar to refresh. Curious but it work too. It is better for notebook without mouse.

spyfrog wrote:

bitkar wrote:i use modeler in a layout where is a main window and a little extra window is at a corner. I experience this aswell. I have to switch to small view and then go back to big one to refresh it (and vice versa).

I have win7 professional 32bit at work.

So our hope is that Wine will work for Truespace eventually and that we can migrate from Windows then?

i tried wine some months ago and tS is too specific, nonstandard piece of software, that it doesnt work in wine.
I heard about http://www.playonlinux.com/en/, maybe tS will be supported one day, but I dont believe it.

Best is still having WinXP x64-edition

Each update brings the end of TS
For those who want to continue to work with TS, i recommand to keep a pc with XP and directx 9.0c. Those who have win7 can no longer work with TS after several update!
Think of it before you get rid of your old PC for a few dollards.

true, but I havent experienced any problems after updates of win7 and I have windows7 at work up to date. tS still works. What problems do you mean? ts will not start? or what?

It is not the first time TS had problem after an update in the past then the problem was resolved. Today we can't update TS and we are on a non secure way with it. Some programmers can help we but for how many time? There will be a day TS will have serious problem... except if we keep the last pc and config useful for TS and for a long time (for me it is XP, win7 can work well now but you can't avoid update who can create a bad config for TS later). The second point is we can't avoid new OS and software because of TS. It is why 2 pc will be the best solution for those who want to continue to work with TS in a few year without problem.
I have thousand .scn files from my work since many years and this archive is more important than the low price of an old pc. If i change my software for my work in a few years, i will be sure i could convert the files i need. It is too long and no necessary to convert all my file now and i don't know what is my futur software(s) for my job. All change so fast...
We think to backup our work but never our hardware. Both are necessary for a long sustainable backup. Maybe it is important for only a few people as me. Not for most people. One who has not experienced the loss of years of work will always be less farsighted.

I don't think a new pc necessarly means Win-7. I looking to get a quad-4 duo and it has an option for downgrade to XP-Professional for same price and per some cpu test I seen its 10 times faster than my currrent pc.
Also at work I dont see us upgrading to win-7 anytime soon, ans I don;t really care to learn the os.

marcel wrote:It is not the first time TS had problem after an update in the past then the problem was resolved. Today we can't update TS and we are on a non secure way with it. Some programmers can help we but for how many time? There will be a day TS will have serious problem... except if we keep the last pc and config useful for TS and for a long time (for me it is XP, win7 can work well now but you can't avoid update who can create a bad config for TS later). The second point is we can't avoid new OS and software because of TS. It is why 2 pc will be the best solution for those who want to continue to work with TS in a few year without problem.
I have thousand .scn files from my work since many years and this archive is more important than the low price of an old pc. If i change my software for my work in a few years, i will be sure i could convert the files i need. It is too long and no necessary to convert all my file now and i don't know what is my futur software(s) for my job. All change so fast...
We think to backup our work but never our hardware. Both are necessary for a long sustainable backup. Maybe it is important for only a few people as me. Not for most people. One who has not experienced the loss of years of work will always be less farsighted.

The problem with keeping an old PC is that Microsoft will stop to support Windows XP in 2014 and that will mean no more security fixes. You will also have problems with drivers if you want to upgrade your computer with some new hardware. Another problem is the Windows activation but that can be avoided by using a XP version without it.

Truespace 6.x is also a bit special since it uses a strange way of making menus - this is the main problem for Wine when I tried it (everything else worked fine). I haven't tried TS 7x in Wine. Long time solution have to be to migrate to another software.

spyfrog wrote: The problem with keeping an old PC is that Microsoft will stop to support Windows XP in 2014 and that will mean no more security fixes. You will also have problems with drivers if you want to upgrade your computer with some new hardware. Another problem is the Windows activation but that can be avoided by using a XP version without it.

Truespace 6.x is also a bit special since it uses a strange way of making menus - this is the main problem for Wine when I tried it (everything else worked fine). I haven't tried TS 7x in Wine. Long time solution have to be to migrate to another software.

If i keep my old pc as a "backup machine", it is not to upgrade or try new software! i use another pc for that. It is to have a clean config for TS only (Os, hardware and driver of same generation). just to have the possibility to read my archives for several years until i use another soft instead TS. About security of this "backup machine", no update and no internet avoid most of the problems. for the support until 2014, it is enought for me to save my work (i have several thousand TS files to read and choose those i must to convert!).
i prefer lost 10 pc than lost the possibility to read my archives. It is 20 years of professional work.
Even if TS work with win7, i prefer keep this pc and use another to follow the evolution. THAT is the best security for a long time solution for TS. Unless someone can say that TS will work again after four years of updates. Sure my need seem different than most of people.

marcel wrote:

spyfrog wrote: The problem with keeping an old PC is that Microsoft will stop to support Windows XP in 2014 and that will mean no more security fixes. You will also have problems with drivers if you want to upgrade your computer with some new hardware. Another problem is the Windows activation but that can be avoided by using a XP version without it.

Truespace 6.x is also a bit special since it uses a strange way of making menus - this is the main problem for Wine when I tried it (everything else worked fine). I haven't tried TS 7x in Wine. Long time solution have to be to migrate to another software.

If i keep my old pc as a "backup machine", it is not to upgrade or try new software! i use another pc for that. It is to have a clean config for TS only (Os, hardware and driver of same generation). just to have the possibility to read my archives for several years until i use another soft instead TS. About security of this "backup machine", no update and no internet avoid most of the problems. for the support until 2014, it is enought for me to save my work (i have several thousand TS files to read and choose those i must to convert!).
i prefer lost 10 pc than lost the possibility to read my archives. It is 20 years of professional work.
Even if TS work with win7, i prefer keep this pc and use another to follow the evolution. THAT is the best security for a long time solution for TS. Unless someone can say that TS will work again after four years of updates. Sure my need seem different than most of people.

I am sure that your solution is the best solution for you, Marcel.
What I meant was simple that as things gets old, they brake. And when they do, it's hard to get replacement parts. That was why I was talking about drivers and other things.

Yes hardware can brake. It is THE problem!
XP can still be installed on newer machines and hope that the drivers (even newer) for XP will have fewer problems for TS than win7. Another solution but that need 2 pc too (for XP and win7). I don't like the dual boot or XP mode (even something useless to encourage the undecided to change, MS marketing). The best is one pc, one OS for me. Or two pc, two OS in my case. (sorry 3 pc, i have Vista too )

well if you old pc brakes, you can you some nonMS virutalPC software to boot XP in win7,8,9,... I think there still will be a software capable of emulating older and more compatible hardware to run XP on it.

...like some emulation for old video game from old platform games that are missing. The old things are very fortunate to live longer than those who just disappear because it creates a kind of craze to find the achievements of the past. I hope that TS will be part of this world.

I just read that hypervisor is getting direct3d support soon and that would probably lead to Virtual PC as well. if it did that would solve the problems...possibly...especially since W7 pro gets XP mode.

Well from what I've read, the XP mode is kinda worthless.

I have it on my office PC and I can't get through the corporate firewall with it. However, if you have an XP license spare then you could easily build your own which I did and it works well enough to do basic stuff. But the cool thing about XP mode is putting shortcuts on the W7 desktop or start menu to launch applications inside the XP mod. Admitedly not tried but they say it will work.

It is basically a VPC image and so doesn't support accelerated graphics but fine for testing apps. you can now mount a USB device though which is handly for dongles or pen drives

When you buy a new car you can use the old road. Why programmers are not as simple as that?

I fully agree Marcel, but it is down to how it has been coded and there are occasionally minor tweaks to keep it going.

We have software being developed using visual Studio 6 from around 1998 and the core of the code goes back to 1984 (yup, the same code) and it works just fine under W7 64-bit.

It could simply be a piece of code that is using native int size and is going 64-bit or something...who knows.

Ok, Just did a fresh install of TS7.6 on my office PC which is W7 64-bit, 6Gb ram and it seems to be running fine. I see the link editor issues (I believe there was a fix for that at some point) and the ground was solid black which I used to get with TS 7.5 as well depending on drivers. Other than that it runs faster than it ever did with about a dozen other apps running and apparently without issue.

brotherx wrote:Ok, Just did a fresh install of TS7.6 on my office PC which is W7 64-bit, 6Gb ram and it seems to be running fine. I see the link editor issues (I believe there was a fix for that at some point) and the ground was solid black which I used to get with TS 7.5 as well depending on drivers. Other than that it runs faster than it ever did with about a dozen other apps running and apparently without issue.

good new. what video card do you use? Have you tested the model side? i am not sure what is the best card for TS win7. nvidia or Amd ati? not for the speed but for the best compatibility.

The video card is an oldie, the ATI 2400HD and not the fastest either. I set up some simple physics tests and let it run and it never crashed. Also loaded a few samples in and messed around with moving and stuff. definitely ok as far as I could see. never tried model. I'll give it a go now.

EDIT: Can someone tell me where I find the fix that stops the LE from messing up?

A Nother EDIT: Model-side works amazingly well - it is so quick and I forgot how intuitive it is as it has been so long.

It should be noted the PC I am using is a DELL but is not a pre-installed OS as I got it wiped and installed with a 64-bit OS instead. I know some folks have issues with Pre-installed PCs but personally I've never purchased one - I always buy parts and put it together as you generally get more for your buck (e.g. quad 2.66ghz intel, 4gb ram, 500GB disk with case. no mon/key/mouse. was 360 euro, dell charged over 750 euro for the same kit and it was just for word processing)

trueSpace 7.61 Win 7 Fix

http://www.dawdolman.com/Downloads.aspx"

brotherx wrote:I fully agree Marcel, but it is down to how it has been coded and there are occasionally minor tweaks to keep it going.

We have software being developed using visual Studio 6 from around 1998 and the core of the code goes back to 1984 (yup, the same code) and it works just fine under W7 64-bit.

It could simply be a piece of code that is using native int size and is going 64-bit or something...who knows.

Isn't the int size of win64 still the same as int in win32?
There is a int64 to use if you want to use a 64 bit integer as I recall.

yes, 64bit win can handle 32bit apps because they can emulate/use 32bit enviroment anyway. So there is nothing magic that old 32bit can run on 64bit OS.

spyfrog wrote: Isn't the int size of win64 still the same as int in win32?
There is a int64 to use if you want to use a 64 bit integer as I recall.

My C++ is a bit rusty but I remember a long being 32-bit and short being 8-bit and int was 16-bit when I started coding in C on a 16-bit computer. Languages like C# get around this by having Int32 and Int64 (really they are mapped to int and long though)

There are issues though according to MSDN
One they mentioned is time_t in 32-bit windows is 32 bits in size, in 64-bit windows it is 64 bits in size.

Also long and int are both 32-bit in C++ according to MSDN. It also mentions pointers store a 64-bit address and trying to assign to a long can cause issues as the values get truncated and can lead to memory addressing issues.
__int64 seems to be the type to use for a 64-bit number. It also says support on 32-bit systems is a little ropey for the __int64 and goes on to say you shouldn't use this unless absolutely necessary.

I don't know why they had to add all these underscores in front of functions/methods/types.

Anyway, sorry, wrong about the long thing.