United3dArtists Archive

Does anyone know if it is possible to put the manuals into Clintons Wiki pages?
I think we need the copyright to do so.
It would be helpful to have an up to date
manual on a server. As microsoft do it self for msdn.
Maybe someone has connections to microsoft to ask them.

The software and documentation are protected by US copyright Laws. you can't diffuse the pdf on a web site without permission of Microsoft.

marcel wrote:The software and documentation are protected by US copyright Laws. you can't diffuse the pdf on a web site without permission of Microsoft.

Yes, but how can we get the permission?
Is someone here who has a good connection to Microsoft and could ask?

Maybe ask Roman. it is the only one who can influence Microsoft but I doubt that this would result because MS is a very closed environment that does not concern "small people".

Wigand wrote:Does anyone know if it is possible to put the manuals into Clintons Wiki pages?
I think we need the copyright to do so.
It would be helpful to have an up to date
manual on a server. As microsoft do it self for msdn.
Maybe someone has connections to microsoft to ask them.

Assuming Disney doesn't lobby a new extension of the copyright length, you should be able to post these on Clintons Wiki pages in the year 2099.....

to ask is not forbidden, isn't it?

Wigand wrote:to ask is not forbidden, isn't it?

no but be careful: if you try to ask Ben Laden you can have problems...

I doesn't hurt to ask. It is very unlikely that MS would grant permission or even reply to inquiries. The question is who to ask. If you want to ask then I would recommend searching the MS web site for contacts related to licensing, publishing, or copyrights.

Finis wrote:I doesn't hurt to ask. It is very unlikely that MS would grant permission or even reply to inquiries. The question is who to ask. If you want to ask then I would recommend searching the MS web site for contacts related to licensing, publishing, or copyrights.

On the other hand.

On the very page where we are allowed to download the now crippled 7.61, it also clearly states that we should use the manual for 7.61:
"trueSpace7.61 workspace only
This is the full 3D authoring package with no time restrictions and no license restrictions on how you use it. This version is the latest release from Caligari with many bug fixes and improvements to the Link Editor. This version has had the legacy Model side removed and features only the new tools in the workspace side. The manual and videos from trueSpace7.61 should be used."

So my thoughts are more in the direction that the manuals have been posted earlier as part of the free download of 7.6 and 7.61.

The manual is referred to and nowhere is it available for download. A clear case of someone forgetting to post them on the Caligari site.

It therefore stands to reason that whomever chooses to post the manuals for 7.61 is only doing it as a favour to Microsoft (Caligari) until they find the person who knows the password to the website.

If that someone decides to post the manuals would the result not be favourable to the very people that Microsoft allows to download 7.61 Workspace?

And wouldn't their response - if they were unfavourable - be to Cease and Desist?

At which time the person posting the manuals could do so.

At CNET
http://download.cnet.com/TrueSpace/3000 ... 87286.html"
they have trueSpace version 7.6 (127.26 megs) which is the last full working
release version. Isn't the manual included with this build? If so why can't
someone else supply it too? (just the manual)

Of course you could always go here:
vi ... f=4&t=1202"

Steinie wrote:At CNET
http://download.cnet.com/TrueSpace/3000 ... 87286.html"
they have trueSpace version 7.6 (127.26 megs) which is the last full working
release version. Isn't the manual included with this build? If so why can't
someone else supply it too? (just the manual)
{/quote]

Infor from my install files:
trueSpace 7.6 itself is 127MB.
Manual is 50MB and
video yet another 129MB.

The link above does not cover manual and videos.

Links found on Microsoft.com also links to the 127MB file or to the Caligari download page where the Workspace version is 88MB.

Of course you could always go here:
vi ... f=4&t=1202"

Didn't see that. Thank you on behalf of those who doesn't have the manual and videos
However - the text on Caligari site specifically refers to the manual for 7.61.
I presume that isn't the same as for 7.6.

jhr wrote:On the other hand. On the very page where we are allowed to download the now crippled 7.61, ...

Since this thread is about copyrights, legality seems to be the issue here. The only information about what legally can or can't be done with that material are the laws and the agreements/licenses/contracts with the property owners. What's right and what's legal aren't always the same.

Morally/ethically, and taken out of context, some of your points are valid. The legal side here seems to be a technicality that is not clear and may be at odds with the apparent intent of the company. As you pointed out, it seems that they intended to give away the whole thing and neglected to include the manuals, and there is the "no harm done" aspect of it. For those reasons I don't morally/ethically disagree with people getting the manuals from wherever (and I'm all for property, copyrights etc.).

Legally, and in context of your entire post, you have a constructed a twisted excuse. MS owns TS and its related material. We can still legally only do what is allowed by agreement the owners. That some software/manual was given away does not necessarily mean that people who get it can redistribute it. That someone posted something somewhere doesn't mean that they did it legally nor that it is legal to acquire it from there, nor if legal, that everyone can also post it. That a legal copy is available for each who wants it doesn't mean that people with one can redistribute it. It could be that way if the owners/agreement say it is.

The legality of it is that MS owns and controls the rights to that material. The legal question then is what is the agreement about downloading, copying, posting, redistributing, and such? Is there a EULA? Is it available somewhere?

Steinie noted the other thread with the cdn posting of the manuals. Legal or not, that solves the practical problem of getting them.

I've got the 7.6 manuals, off the Caligari site since last year along with all the other downloads, the tutorials and everything I could grab before it all crashed.

I've also merged all the PDFs into a single manual file for easier management. It's 65 meg and 1400+ pages.

The original PDF .exe file is 50 meg, and the video tutorials .exe is 132 meg.

I see the Caligari web site no longer features them on the final download page, and the final TS download has shrunk from 130 meg to 88.

Not sure about the legality, but if there's a way to make them available to the community let me know.

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