United3dArtists Archive

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 11 Mar 2010, 16:39

I haven't looked into it much yet, but it looks like Microsoft reincarnated some of the tS/tP technology in a new body.

http://www.3dvia.com/studio/"

froo · Post by **froo** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:05

yeah; this kinda reminds me of a demo we saw in beta... remember that character automatically
interacting with the environment? Hmmmmm....

http://www.3dvia.com/studio/demos/advan ... -animation"

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:08

MS might use the TS tech somewhere. Canceling TS doesn't mean they bought it for no reason. They might have just wanted its internal tech for other products.

Does MS own this company? This could be an independent development.

froo · Post by **froo** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:08

and this looks oddly familiar; sure axis representations can look similar from app to app, but this
looks very much like our truespace widget:

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:11

Yeah, the manipulators have "Roman" written all over them, lol. They also have a node editor for creating "behaviors". I'm fairly certain there is tS/tP technology behind this, and Roman is likely involved.

Watch some of the instructional videos. There are definitely things reminiscent of tS/tP.

froo · Post by **froo** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:17

cool. And, from the video, looks like the IK is correct, complete with walking up and down stairs.
Groovy. We'll see how this one pans out.
Are you going to give it a go Dele? I am.

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:18

After watching the videos, I'm not convinced that it even holds a flame next to Unity. It looks overly complicated and cumbersome. It is interesting to see what likely happened to the tS/tP technology though.

spacekdet · Post by **spacekdet** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:20

EEETTSSS ALIIIIVE!!!

: yfrank.jpeg (13.28 KiB) Viewed 5258 times

froo · Post by **froo** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:21

ah ok. Cool.
Guess I'm still interested in 3d interactive scenes!

I'll have to check out Unity3D as well.
Say, is 3dvisualsdude (Mark O Dwyer) using that now? I can't recall.

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:21

froo wrote:cool. And, from the video, looks like the IK is correct, complete with walking up and down stairs.
Groovy. We'll see how this one pans out.
Are you going to give it a go Dele? I am.

I'm really happy with Unity. It's so much more powerful and simplified compared to what Caliagri was doing, and what 3DVIA looks like it's adopted. I will definitely look into it though. If for no other reason than to see how they incorporated the tS/tP stuff.

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:23

froo wrote:ah ok. Cool.
Guess I'm still interested in 3d interactive scenes!

I'll have to check out Unity3D as well.
Say, is 3dvisualsdude (Mark O Dwyer) using that now? I can't recall.

You can make online 3d interactive scenes with Unity.

As for Mark, I haven't seen him around the Unity forums. I have run into Tiles though. He seems to be liking it as well.

froo · Post by **froo** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:24

So does unity have good IK and physics? Can you build scenes in which other folks can join and interact?

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:31

froo wrote:So does unity have good IK and physics? Can you build scenes in which other folks can join and interact?

It's got good physics, and MUCH more powerful scripting. There are a lot of functions to handle interactivity that tS never had. I haven't used any rigged characters yet. I've seen scripts to handle walking on uneven terrains and stuff like that.

Creating online spaces with multiple users is a more involved process than with tS. I mean, that's where the focus of tS was. You can create multi-user environments in Unity though, with much more power and control than with tS. I haven't really gotten into that stuff yet though, so I don't know all of the details of setting up such an environment. I have seen other multi-player worlds that were created though. Cartoon Network actually created a huge MMO with Unity. So it's all possible there.

froo · Post by **froo** » 11 Mar 2010, 18:11

Sweet.
I'll have to invest some time in it then.

Oh; how about quality of content: textures, lighting?

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 11 Mar 2010, 18:35

The texturing is good. You can use PSD or bitmap files, then set the optimization/compression for whatever platform you like. It automatically detects changes to the files and updates them too.

The lighting is limited in the free version. If you want really pretty scenes, you'll want to use lightmaps (something tS didn't have, but should have had). Real-time lighting can only take you so far, especially on the web, so lightmaps are the way to go. You can use Gile[s] to create the those for Unity. I've already tested that, and it works great.

If you can afford the Pro version of Unity, that has stuff like real-time shadows, SSAO, glow, etc. Actually Unity just announced that they are releasing version 3 this summer and it will have lightmapping with BEAST. It will also have occlusion culling with UMBRA. Some great technology there. Right now they have a pre-release pricing for v3 at $1200. Still a LOT of money, but for $300 off and all of those new features, I'm going to try very hard to get my hands on it. They haven't announced what all will be in the free version, but I'm sure it will have a few nice new tools as well.

Here is a link to the Unity v3 info:
http://unity3d.com/unity/coming-soon/unity-3"

I really think you would like Unity a lot once you got into it Froo. I could even show you around a bit to get you running with it fast, though the documentation is very good in and of itself.

P.S. I'm not certain, but from what I saw on the 3DVIA Studio forums, it looks like it might not even support multi-user environments yet. That was the biggest thing tS/tP had going for it.

froo · Post by **froo** » 11 Mar 2010, 19:04

Sounds good Dele. I think I'll join you there then!
But I'll also be here too, of course!

compPanda · Post by **compPanda** » 11 Mar 2010, 21:14

But this page is owned by DASSAULT SYSTEME
http://www.3ds.com/

I can't see Microsoft behind this.

Délé · Post by **Délé** » 11 Mar 2010, 21:30

They have a partnership with Microsoft, in particular the Virtual Earth department, which is where Roman was placed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3dvia"

splinters · Post by **splinters** » 14 Mar 2010, 00:24

I for one am glad to see this. I am fast becoming a real fan of Google Sketchup; a program bought by Google and given away free almost in full (very few of the pro features are needed) to facilitate the production of models by the masses for Google earth.
If MS do the same with ts; make it more steamlined and accessible, then it can only be a good thing. Better it is reincarnated than simply left to rot.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 14 Mar 2010, 00:27

Splinters is right, however I don't want a streamlined 3d program, I want a visual 3d complete package, as the original trueSpace was.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 14 Mar 2010, 00:35

Agree with Splinters. It is good for Virtual Earth, or Bing Maps 3D, or whatever for the TS 7.6 tech to become its Sketchup. That was speculated to be why MS bought TS way back at the purchase.

Leon is right too. TS users want more than Sketchup. We want a full package like old TS or Lightwave etc.

splinters · Post by **splinters** » 14 Mar 2010, 14:58

leonregis wrote:Splinters is right, however I don't want a streamlined 3d program, I want a visual 3d complete package, as the original trueSpace was.

But trueSpace is gone....for good. Best that we get something sreamlined like sketchup than nothing at all....?
We can still use the tS we own, new software is always welcome.

stan · Post by **stan** » 14 Mar 2010, 18:03

Splinters there is always the chance that microsoft will sell truespace off if its of no value to them.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 14 Mar 2010, 19:21

splinters wrote:
leonregis wrote:Splinters is right, however I don't want a streamlined 3d program, I want a visual 3d complete package, as the original trueSpace was.
But trueSpace is gone....for good. Best that we get something sreamlined like sketchup than nothing at all....?
We can still use the tS we own, new software is always welcome.

If you realy get into Sketchup and all the plugins you will see that Sketchup isnt much less streamlined then Truespace.
you can even have sketchy physics......... sds etc.
You got to go to the sketchukation forum there is a plugin for everything.....
But to be honest i´m not looking any further anyways ... with Silo for poly and Moi for nurbs and free Sketchup for buildings etc. I got the full range for 350 $
That setup together is more powerfull then Maya for modeling ! Throw in some zbrush and or 3d coat and you also cover easy painting and sculpting and with the plugin
for zbrush the easiest way of making awsome Uv maps.....
Heck what else would I want ?
I´m not looking around any more..... and dont envy any 3dmax or Maya or houdini or whatever users....

splinters · Post by **splinters** » 14 Mar 2010, 20:54

stan wrote:Splinters there is always the chance that microsoft will sell truespace off if its of no value to them.

But who would buy it Stan? It was already way behind its competitors in terms of industry standard features. Would users here really chip in to try and buy it back at an (likely considering it is MS) extortionate price? And then what would we do with it without a programming team.
Really, if this did ever happen, would anyone still be sitting around ready to move on with it?
I still use tS and I am 'mastering' sketchup for teaching use...I don't need new software really but I like even less, the idea of waiting for news of tS' future. I consider it dead as a commercial piece of software but invaluable in my own illustration arsenal.

v3rd3 · Post by **v3rd3** » 14 Mar 2010, 22:15

I think you hit it on the head Paul, every artist needs an arsenal.

When I started out I quite foolishly thought I could use TS for everything. In one sense you can but you sacrifice the productivity that you get from tools in other packages.

The old saying goes "just cuz you have a hammer does not mean everything is a nail".

We all need to keep our eye on the range of tools out there and have a reasonable understanding of their capabilities. Further we need to work to understand how they can fit together.

Realizing this, the benefit of this forum to all who are here is huge.

compPanda · Post by **compPanda** » 14 Mar 2010, 22:27

stan wrote:Splinters there is always the chance that microsoft will sell truespace off if its of no value to them.

Source code for a program like TS is hard to read and understand since it is rather complex - it took quite some time after Blender was released as open source before it began to make any progress. I don't think any one would want to buy the source code either since it looks like it is hard to make a profit with a company that sells low end 3D software these days.

We also know two things about the TS source code that makes it less valuable:
1) It is still divided between the old model side (which has most tools) and the workspace. Porting between them seams to be hard and takes times as Caligari shown us by making slow progress. Many good features is still not ported to workspace
2) It is buggy - TS is one of the most instable software I have. This has been the case for a long time as I recall.
3) It has no render engine built in any more. The model side is totally dependent on the Lightwork engine and that isn't free. Even getting model side to work without Lightwork would probably be hard (without rendering).
The workspace can work with any render engine but here we have the problem that it isn't a complete software yet - it still needs parts ported from model side to be complete.

splinters · Post by **splinters** » 15 Mar 2010, 09:16

Indeed. Further reason to move on if you need a 'future' with your software.
tS does what I need (although better fur would help) and I find that my style has been moulded by what tS can do.
With Vray and Dribble I get most of what I need for now.
It is much healthier to learn tS and get the most out of what it still offers than to lament it's passing and speculate on any future it has. If MS take the best it had to offer, add a few extras and make it free and simple to use (like Sketchup) then we all win.

United3dArtists Archive

trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?

Re: trueSpace/truePlay reincarnated?