United3dArtists Archive

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 29 Sep 2011, 02:25

Going to try and move away from my normal hard surfacing type models and see if I can get into making some character based stuff. I have tried before on a few occassions but the results have been pretty dire and I have given up. The idea of this thread is to try and make me stick at it a bit more. Anyhow, here is the progress on my first attempt. A little character I'm making for a parody scene I have planned.

MikomDude · Post by **MikomDude** » 29 Sep 2011, 08:47

Hehe, looking forward to that scene

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 29 Sep 2011, 09:42

ya character modeling is maybe the hardest discipline. I gave up too, once. You have to carry on to master it. Its not a matter of while. Experiences are essential. Character modeling sux, man :D But when you master it, it brings respect usually :)

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 30 Sep 2011, 01:12

I get your drift, bitkar. Defo a long-haul project this. I'm gonna start out doing aliens and robots to get a feel for the way things are done; perhaps follow a few on-line tuts. Then hopefully move on to more human like figures. Eventually, way-down-the-road, I'd like to try and produce something good enough to get published in a mag. Aiming high, I know, but it's nice to have a final goal.

Anyhows, here is an update on my first little character:

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 30 Sep 2011, 08:48

haha, next episode of Monsters inc. ? :D

well aliens and creaters is a good way to start (i skipped that, i shouldnt have), can be very creative :) This one is going to look very funy and cute :D

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 30 Sep 2011, 22:50

Ahhh, Monsters Inc, the penny finally drops. I was wondering where my sub-conscious influence was coming from. Now I know.

Anyhow's, here is another small update. Just need to dress him now.

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 01 Oct 2011, 14:14

Looks like something from the movie Planet51...Very cool..
Keep up the good work.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 02 Oct 2011, 03:32

I never saw that movie. I remember the trailer well enough though. That alien dog was brill! Have to see if I can find it on DVD.

Anyhow's, here's how I'm getting on with my characters' boots; yet another everyday thing\object that you think is relativly straight forward and can't possibly be that hard to make until you sit down and start trying to make 'em one day.

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 02 Oct 2011, 07:14

Nice work so far .the boots are looking perfect.
the alien looks like the alien from the simsons.
was this done in modo?
Keep it going man cool

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 02 Oct 2011, 09:17

Breech Block,
I will have to re-phrase my statement from earlier.
Its not that the character you designed was in the movie but given the design it fits the same designs that were used in the movie.
As for the boots you are very correct on how hard it can be to design something so simple and yet very common.
I have never been one design items and make them look real, I have always had that eye for the cartoon look.
Good job on the boots, are you going to add spurs to the boots?

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 03 Oct 2011, 00:44

Thanks guys.

Pugman - Yeah, I have a trial version of modo that I am playing about with and trying to get to grips with. I think I'm slowly getting there. Once you understand how their layer system works it does become a lot easier.

Jeffroig - Yep, gonna do some spurs next. LOL, your way ahead of me on this one. I think it's gonna be hard to get them to look a natural fit for the boots as opposed to seeing something that has obviously been modeled seperately and therfore has a lot of areas where the mesh/poly faces are breaking through each other.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 03 Oct 2011, 22:49

Here is an update on how the boot is coming on. Just need to add some kind of buckle to show how it fastens.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 03 Oct 2011, 23:13

The boots look feminine. Are you using reference images? I'm thinking of cowboy boots but this might be an English style or such?

If they are supposed to be feminine then good job! If not then that look comes from: too narrow in the foot and shaft (upper part), shaft tapered from top to ankle, too form fitted in the ankle/(foot) heel area, too long a taper to toes, and the shape of the top.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 04 Oct 2011, 03:25

I knew I wasn't too happy with the boots but I could never put my finger on why. Your post explains it; thanks. Your comments have also made me take a step back and start to think that maybe I have gone too far in the way of a realistic look and as they are for a 6-legged alien, perhaps I should be angling for a more cartoonish look.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 06 Oct 2011, 05:35

Well, I'm still not happy with either my alien or the boots I'm trying to make for him/her/it. As I alluded to before, my previous modelling experience centres around trying to get things super accurate/real, so organic/cartoony things are way out of my comfort zone. Anyhows, I thought that to help rectify this, I'd place the alien on the back-burner and try my hand at making a caricature. So I have been struggling to get to grips with facial topology and all sorts over the last few days. Crikey, talk about difficult, it makes yer' brain hurt. So yeah, whilst I might be using the same software and the same tools as before, doing character is like saying okay, well you've used a tin of paint and a brush before to paint the outside fence before, so now why not pop over to Italy and finish off the Sistine Chapel.

Anyhow's, here is where I am with my caricature of a very famous UK based celebrity/personality. I guess I'll know how good it is if anyone can work out who it is when it's finished.

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 06 Oct 2011, 10:16

Great start on the model, put in a little more detail and I will make a guess as to who it is.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 06 Oct 2011, 17:28

jeffroig wrote:...and I will make a guess as to who it is.

Ha ha! Good luck with that. Even I can't tell who it is supposed to be most of the time. But occasionally, when the angle and lighting is just right, like the piccie below, I can just see the character trying to emerge through the mesh.

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 06 Oct 2011, 21:32

Is this person on TV as in a TV series or in the movies like in the theater?

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 06 Oct 2011, 21:59

Who made those awesome celebrity portraits? Mad Mouse?

Look at that chin! It is Jay Leno! No, "very famous UK based celebrity/personality", ... it is Breech Block! No, famous-er ... Splinters! No, even more famous ...

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 06 Oct 2011, 22:31

Finis,
You are a nut.....LOL

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 06 Oct 2011, 22:38

Wow! ZZTop in the Flesh!

or a super hero called "Fork Face"...I made that up...

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 06 Oct 2011, 23:05

Ok Steinie you have just topped Finis....You are not only nuts but Bananas to say the least.....

DarkScythe · Post by **DarkScythe** » 06 Oct 2011, 23:19

simon cowell...

if not, there's a question regarding barack obama citizenship so he must be from uk so... "barack obama''

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 06 Oct 2011, 23:43

I say Gordon Ramsey...

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 07 Oct 2011, 02:41

LOL! You guys are cracking me up.

There are a couple of great suggestions there for characters who are just crying out to be done as a 3D caricature. Unfortunately, I didn't pick any of them.

I'm not going to give any hints as to who it as I'd rather the model stand on its own as to whom it looks like rather me planting a suggestion in your heads.

As to how famous/well known the person, suffice to say they are one of the very best at what they do. But if what they do lies outside your scope of interest then you may not have heard of him/her.

Anyhows, here is a slight update. I have been working a lot on trying to refine the lips and chin. Teeth and ears tomorrow methinks.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 07 Oct 2011, 04:05

Max Headroom?

MikomDude · Post by **MikomDude** » 07 Oct 2011, 12:03

Breech Block wrote:As to how famous/well known the person, suffice to say they are one of the very best at what they do. But if what they do lies outside your scope of interest then you may not have heard of him/her.

Jim Carrey?

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 08 Oct 2011, 02:30

AAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH – this is so infuriating. I get the mouth how I want it and then the chin gets mucked up. Then I get the chin how I want it to only to find the mouth mucked up. Whose bright idea was this character modelling malarkey eh.

Anyhows, a lot of work gone into trying to make the lips fuller and the mouth less oval. Also the chin more round on top with a slight double-chin below. Also had a bash at doing an ear. Aside from who it is supposed to be, any comments/critique on the actual mesh itself? I wont be putting in any wrinkles/laughter lines until I get all the features spot on as it will just make it to complicated to make any adjustments. But the plan is to eventually put a few in, even if I could resort to just having them on the texture.

As for the guesses as to who it is supposed to be, I can see where you're going with the Max Headroom and Lemony Snickett comparisons...err...well...apart from the fact their both fictional characters...and...err...they were both portrayed by American actors.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 08 Oct 2011, 03:52

Try putting one of the (E?) poles on each side of the mouth close to the upper-lower lip intersection, the corner, of the mouth. You may be able to use just one on each mouth corner.

Try moving the outer mouth loop closer the the lips kind of like the ear.

Try adding a loop(s) around the chin to isolate that area for details.

Do you mean that working on the chin changes the mouth and vice versa?

MikomDude · Post by **MikomDude** » 08 Oct 2011, 14:12

Breech Block wrote:As for the guesses as to who it is supposed to be, I can see where you're going with the Max Headroom and Lemony Snickett comparisons...err...well...apart from the fact their both fictional characters...and...err...they were both portrayed by American actors.

Hmm, should I start thinking "Greek Mythology" instead?

Oh btw, here is another random guess:

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 09 Oct 2011, 04:33

Thanks for the tips, Finis.

LOL, not even close MD - which doesn't say much for my modelling skills.

Here is a slight update. Gotta say I was really disapointed with the teeth. I thought they would really bring the character to life, but if anything it detracts from the overall likeness. Before, i could really imagine the mouth having this wide, toothy, boyish grin. But the teeth just make the character look more like an orc. Dunnu where i'm going wrong or how to improve it.

BTW, in the piccie below, the skin and eyes are just something I slapped on to try and get a better overall feel for how the model was progressing.

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 09 Oct 2011, 09:59

It kind of looks like this guy.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 09 Oct 2011, 23:53

jeffroig wrote:It kind of looks like this guy.

What is it with all these fictional american's people keep posting?

Anyways, another slight update. I have remodelled the ears and chin yet again and repositioned the lower lip so that it now lies directly underneath the upper lip. This in turn means the teeth can now be placed-in in a more upright fashion, which I think has brought a bit more of the characters likeness back in. Still looks a bit gormless/souless. I have no idea how people inject so much life into their characters which I suppose is where the real art/skill is at with these types of projects.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 10 Oct 2011, 01:10

Looking good. Now don't fall into the trap of making him too real looking due to your (awesome) skill in realism.

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 10 Oct 2011, 10:37

Breech Block,
You know we are all having fun with you.
I am not sure what software you are using to model in, you may want to look at Argile for breathing more life into your character.
You can find it at n-sided.com I use it and love it.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 10 Oct 2011, 21:56

Finis - Thanks for the kind words. Was kinda thinking the same thing myself - about not going overboard in changing the figure to more realistic proportions in a bid to try and breath life into the model. Hopefully, if I can figure out the smile lines, it will give the characters grin a more realistic/natural look as opposed to something that has been slapped/stitched on.

Jeffroig - I followed your link - nice find. That said, I don't think my failure so far on this project has anything to do with me not having the correct tools, more a case of a complete lack of talent/ability to use them.

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 10 Oct 2011, 22:41

Breech Block,
I am not trying to sell you on using Argile, but I have to say it is one of the best sculpting tools I have ever used.
I tried Mud Box and several others and Argile works great. It is easy to use and very straight forward.
If you decide to try it I will be glad to help you in learning it, I use it all the time.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 11 Oct 2011, 03:40

Thanks for the offer, Jeffroig, much appreciated. I have just managed to get my trial of modo extended by a couple of weeks so I'll wait and see how I manage with that first.

Here is a slight update on my model. I need to check the correct eye colour of the person in real life but it will be easy to swap them out now they are all set-up. Also, now I'm pretty happy with the basic shape and topology, I have closed the inside of the mouth so that area renders out correctly. Have also reshaped the very top of the head and added some wrinkles on the forehead.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 11 Oct 2011, 23:04

I can't really help with advise about the character head since I do not know what it should look like BUT the ears need work.
They are always the hardest part.
I also notice that the irises are not round, they look elliptical. They should ALWAYS be round.
The teeth look improved but look large. (That might be correct but again I just don't know what the original character
looks like)
The top of the nose has too many loops which makes it look like a separate object. It should really blend into the forehead.
Your tackling a very difficult area of 3d Breech Block and my hats off to you!
I see improvements in every one of your post.

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 11 Oct 2011, 23:39

I thought I had figured out who it was, my guess was Pierce Brosnan. After looking closer at his picture I decided it was not him.

Steinie,
I think Breech Block is creating the eyes in what they called winced fashion.
You are right without seeing what the actual person is it is hard to make any suggestions.
The irises are elliptical they looked squashed and not round.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 12 Oct 2011, 04:05

Thanks for the pointers guys and here is an update showing corrections to the eyes and nose. I'll attack the ears tomorrow.

Jeffroig - LOL, yor getting warmer.

Steinie - thanks for the ear piccie, that should help me a lot.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 12 Oct 2011, 04:38

As for who it is, perhaps this will help:-

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 13 Oct 2011, 04:30

Well, here is my first stab at making an ear following Steinie's reference piccie. I thought I'd go for a normal'ish look first and then exaggerate/characterise it once I have applied it to the model.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 15 Oct 2011, 03:14

The new ears have now been grafted onto the main model.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 15 Oct 2011, 13:34

Breech Block wrote:The new ears have now been grafted onto the main model.

Character 016.jpg

I know that guy !
He´s Mr PROPER from advertisement !

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 15 Oct 2011, 19:16

Breech Block, the ears improvements are huge!
This guy has the look of English Royalty (the big teeth and grin) or an English Comic...
(both are kind of goofy in the real world)

Nope can't place him yet, but trying...

Peter in the USA your character is named "Mr. Clean"

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 16 Oct 2011, 00:00

I dated a girl that looked like that.

That big chin...well...er ...nevermind.

DarkScythe · Post by **DarkScythe** » 16 Oct 2011, 01:40

"Ken Barrington"

v3rd3 · Post by **v3rd3** » 16 Oct 2011, 02:12

It's Jason Statham ... isn't it....

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 16 Oct 2011, 02:20

LOL - You guys aren't doing my confidence much good.

Rayman - Bald, old (white eyebrows), muscular and an ear-ring...mmm...wonder what demographic he was designed to appeal too.

V3rd3 - Good guess, but afraid not.

DarkScythe - Getting warmer!

Steinie - Thanks, much appreciated. All down to you pushing me to do better; and providing an excellent reference piccie. I would have easily settled for what I had already achieved, so please feel free to pile on the critique everyone.

DarkScythe · Post by **DarkScythe** » 16 Oct 2011, 03:01

from your character features his eye and nose, his chin, hairline baldness and smile seems to fit.......

"WAYNE ROONEY"

but the length of the face make me think it is not.... rooney is a little bit rounder shape.

hmmmm.... who maybe I guess many more search for bald uk personalities

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 16 Oct 2011, 04:28

Sort of reminds me of this creepy character. Seen him around, likes to pose as a rodent.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 16 Oct 2011, 04:43

jamesmc - LMAO

DarkScyth - Congratulations and give yourself a cigar. Yes indeedy it is supposed to be Wayne Rooney, although not too good a likeness admitedly. Perhaps when I get around to putting proper hair on him and a proper face texture as opposed to a plain old skin shader it will start to look like him a bit more. Your right about the longness of the face being off, but most of the caricature piccies I have seen have him depicted in this way.

DarkScythe · Post by **DarkScythe** » 16 Oct 2011, 08:53

WAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

I knew it... his eyes, nose, chin, smile, and hairline almost the same of the pics of rooney.

Your right about the longness of the face being off, but most of the caricature piccies I have seen have him depicted in this way.

yeah your right.... I forgot also, I am comparing the pics of the real rooney and your "caricature" and I see some comparison but not the longness of the face and thats the miss of my perception, caricature are mostly drawn like that.. caricature of people must be drawn distorted.

I think bananas to you also breech you give him justice he really like rooney

now wheres rooney let him sign it!!!

i thank GOOGLE for this great achivement!

PS:WHY I CANNOT PUT BANANAS OR SMILEY MORE THAN TEN

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 17 Oct 2011, 01:59

Thanks for the kind words, DarkScythe. It's not too bad for a first effort, I suppose, but still a mountain to climb if I want to persue modelling in this arena. Anyhow's, here is a small update on how the legs are progressing.

Oh and a picture of the real Wayne Rooney for those of you scratching your heads if you've never heard of him before. He's a world class striker (football/soccer) and plays for Manchester United. If your still non-the-wiser, use Google images.

DarkScythe · Post by **DarkScythe** » 17 Oct 2011, 04:38

yeah his a world class striker also..

The "Tiger Woods of UK"... just read the wiki so you will know

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 18 Oct 2011, 18:55

I have been playing about with the position of the teeth, but it doesn't seem to make too much of a difference to my eyes. I have also been pushing the character's wrinkles/folds as far as I think I can get away with. The big decision now is as to whether or not to use the same skin shader I have used throughout these test renders, which is not too bad to be fair, gives the model a kind of Pixar look. Or, for me to try and create a custom texture map for the face. As my texture skills really suck big time I'm loathe to go that route but will give it one attempt anyhow. In prep for that I have been learning how to unwrap UV's and think I have got it about as good as I am going to get.

jamesmc · Post by **jamesmc** » 18 Oct 2011, 22:06

I like the oversized teeth myself.

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 19 Oct 2011, 10:11

i like the teeth on the left pic.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 21 Oct 2011, 06:21

LOL...okay that's one vote for each; guess I'll wait until the model gets his hair sorted before making a final decision. Anyhow's here is the latest update:

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 21 Oct 2011, 07:50

that looks really PRO... you have talent indeed. Everything you make looks good.

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 21 Oct 2011, 11:30

Hey now I know why they don't use their hands in soccer...they don't have any...

Looking good!

jeffroig · Post by **jeffroig** » 21 Oct 2011, 12:25

Very nice job you have done on the shirt, the wrinkles look great.
On the face I would remove or decrease the hook at the end of the chin, decrease the length of chin pull the mouth outwards slightly and reduce the cheeks slightly. The teeth look good either way. The ears you have dead on after looking at the actual photo he does have large ears.
I am not sure what you are modeling in , if in Maya you can use the free plugin in for hair that does a great job, you could also import him into Poser and use their hair system.
I have to say I would of never guessed who it was as one I dont watch soccer and two I am not a big sports fan.
At one point I actually did a search on famous male actors from the UK to try and match him up when the guess was still going.

pugman 1 · Post by **pugman 1** » 21 Oct 2011, 15:17

Thats looking realy cool man ,you got the hang of modo ,
you can do the hair also in modo ,whatch the tut on the web on hair in modo
it helps alot .

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 21 Oct 2011, 16:14

I like the pose. Will you do the hands?

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 21 Oct 2011, 23:25

Bitkar – Thanks for the kind words, I'm humbled.

Steinie – ROFL! Thanks. I'm just dreading doing them.

Jeffroig – I hear what your saying, matey. And I must admit I've been kinda having similar thoughts. The lighting set-up doesn't help as it is making his features look a lot sharper than they are. Need to bounce some more light towards him. Time is an issue now so I might just have to plough-on.

Pugman – Thanks, for both the kind words and the tip.

Finis – Thanks. I want to, but I'm quickly running out of time as I only have a couple days left on my modo trial. Would ideally like to have him with one foot resting on a football. And do real grass. And do hair. And model a proper stadium background. Sigh...another (life) time perhaps.

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 26 Oct 2011, 02:32

Well, here is the latest update. Modeling and positioning the hands turned out to be even a bigger nightmare than I imagined. It was made even more so by the fact I did not position the arms correctly in the first place. Because of that, I had to remodel the arms and the shirt where his hands fold into the material. That subsequently meant I had to redo the shirt's texture and bump map. Have added some more detail to the boots and socks. Also managed a bit of a better render where the lighting is not as harsh. Might have gone a bit too far and need to bring it back a bit on that score. Other than that, just the hair left to do methinks.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 26 Oct 2011, 03:39

Great!

froo · Post by **froo** » 26 Oct 2011, 18:14

Very well done Breech.
I actually prefer this softer lighting.

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 27 Oct 2011, 00:51

Yah me too!!! looks much more natural!

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 28 Oct 2011, 18:14

Thanks for the comments guys, much appreciated. Here is where I am at at the mo. Added studs and proper lace ties to the boots. Put some hair on the character as well plus a few other tweaks. Apart from a few texture corrections, I think this is about it. I'd be very intrested to hear if you think the piccie is cropped too much and whether you think I should show more of the stadia. I have also been thinking of adding a DoF effect. With this particular render, as it is a caricature, have tried to go for that Bubble-gum Card type of look. Your thoughts on this?

Steinie · Post by **Steinie** » 28 Oct 2011, 20:18

If you are not completely done I would add a few freckles on his hands. They both look too perfect.
I think some added room at the top of the head is needed. Now I'm struggling for suggestions because I like everything else.
Great job!

bitkar · Post by **bitkar** » 31 Oct 2011, 10:14

this is just looking great! both bald and with hair! I really love the clothing (looking realistic like a cloth, is it made manually?)

Breech Block · Post by **Breech Block** » 31 Oct 2011, 14:43

Thanks guys.

Steinie - Good call on the hands, I'll get that fixed straight away. I think your right on the cropping too.

Bitkar - The cloth is all done by hand. I put very deep creases in at the start by Point Editing vertices and then just use SDS to smooth them out.

Musikman · Post by **Musikman** » 02 Nov 2011, 00:13

Wow! Another masterpiece BB, congrats on a great job!

Re the trading card look, might I suggest adding a thin border around the whole thing and his name and team at the bottom? Don't know what the cards look like in the UK, but here in the USA most cards have the border, or at least a footer with the player name and team, or team logo. I like the size of the character in relation to the size of the stadium, I wouldn't change that. Beautiful textures and shading, nice!

This is just one example, there is also usually an autographed siggie as well....http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Topps-Base ... 0354213410

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