United3dArtists Archive

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 25 Aug 2009, 18:40

A few months ago I had a head with a simple method (my avatar) but having problems rendering. This forced me to triangulate the object but I do not triangulated object for various reasons.
This is my first attempt at modeling a head using SDS.
I studied the construction of a head to achieve a very simple object. All faces are quads. Interest is to be able to do new head by changing a few lines. The image shown is an SDS object without any editing after the multiplication of polygons. object has only 319 polygons.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 25 Aug 2009, 19:36

Good Work.
I don't domain face creation yet but I know that this head is amazing... Keep posting the head evolution!

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 25 Aug 2009, 20:35

Thank leonregis!
I used the sketch of an very old manual drawings for the construction of lines. Logic to build volumes is very similar to that used with 3D software. I redid all the steps in the old manual and I have adapted to the 3d. The computer is only used to facilitate visualization and save time. The illustrator drawing the lines and draw the shapes between the lines. I only builds the lines. smooth forms are created with the SDS. We understand here that the soft is just a tool. Creation is a problem of comprehension.
Here is an other view:

seejay · Post by **seejay** » 26 Aug 2009, 00:21

I think you need to work on your edge loops. I've spend some time researching facial modelling, and it's all in the loops. Take a look at the many tutorials on the web, and you'll soon get the idea.
Looking forward to seeing how you progress.
Chris

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 26 Aug 2009, 04:12

This is a Lightworks render in TS 6.6 or model side right? Do you have the triangulate option for rendering on? Try this for me to see if you have the same problem with SDS that I'm having: render the head in Lightworks with triangulate off and only raytraced shadows on the lights. Are there any unexpected lines, dots, etc. like in my Flower Vase thread?

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 26 Aug 2009, 07:19

seejay wrote:I think you need to work on your edge loops. I've spend some time researching facial modelling, and it's all in the loops. Take a look at the many tutorials on the web, and you'll soon get the idea.
Looking forward to seeing how you progress.
Chris

I want a different method from those I know and that we see everywhere. Is a search, not a learning.

Loops are useful to start a modeling. But we must put as little as possible. when I need a line for local detail, loop adds unnecessary lines around the object. This quickly become complex. The nose, mouth and eyes need have a lot of detail so that the skull can be simple. so use only loops seems not the best solution for a head. I'll show you later how it is constructed.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 26 Aug 2009, 07:36

Finis wrote:This is a Lightworks render in TS 6.6 or model side right? Do you have the triangulate option for rendering on? Try this for me to see if you have the same problem with SDS that I'm having: render the head in Lightworks with triangulate off and only raytraced shadows on the lights. Are there any unexpected lines, dots, etc. like in my Flower Vase thread?

Yes model side. Sorry i have no problem to render with this head. I remember the problem with my avatar was a problem of geometry. It is not the subject in this thread. I use only quad with the most simple object to do a "standard object" as a base to do different head. There is no problem of tool or technic here. Just idea...

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 26 Aug 2009, 15:20

Here are the latest modeling. I further reduced the Polycount. The cheeks are not yet done and we see the old loops. When they are done, it will be like the skull. The SDS achieved with this construction gives exactly the same result but with far fewer polygons initially. In this way, it will be easy to make new head from this object.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 26 Aug 2009, 15:26

Looks better than before

Keep the good work

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 26 Aug 2009, 17:59

Add the position of the ear. I adjusted the jaw when I placed the neck...
314 polygons. I think this object will have 400 polygons. It is a good number if i want to use it to do several head. Smaller details can be done with texture and bump map. The hardest part is kept nerve forms with a small polycount. But it will be easier to do several head later.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 27 Aug 2009, 14:33

Last update with the neck. Now i can adjust the jaw. I prefer to do ears as independant object. It will be better for the uv map.
385 polygons.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 28 Aug 2009, 15:25

With this object i can now change the head easily by moving the vertices of the main building. It's easier than changing a loop. The handling is similar to using nurbs. Vertices are handled as the control point of a curve. Here is some test:

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 30 Aug 2009, 12:15

A new head more sophisticated from the same object.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 30 Aug 2009, 12:28

Looks easy to change completely the face in some minutes. You can make humanoid or funny heads with that...

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 30 Aug 2009, 20:02

Yes this basic model can actually be modified to create all sorts of heads. The reduced number of vertices can also make morphing (it is just an idea). I added the eyes. It remains to make the eyelashes, eyebrows and hair.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 30 Aug 2009, 20:05

Those eyes have a number of layers or just is a single object?

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 30 Aug 2009, 20:33

I got the eyes of my avatar and changed color

. The retina is printed on the main sphere then the retina is covered by another smaller and transparent sphere for the shine. To change the appearance of the retina with light, just change the refractive value of the material. Useful for a cat.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 30 Aug 2009, 20:38

Looks very realistic marcel, good eye the texture you take from internet right? It's difficult take a phot from your own eye (believe, I tried

)

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 02 Sep 2009, 18:00

And here's the hair. Hair is made with bands around the skull. I lay several strips parallel. They have a glow shader to give a little depth. There are some details to finish: the eyelashes, improve the texture and work on the bump map If i want to make a high definition. Starting again from the basic model, I'd like to create 3 or 4 heads with very different characters and do a scene like a painted picture.

DesignDevil · Post by **DesignDevil** » 02 Sep 2009, 18:32

boaaahhhh ... the model himself, pretty cool and very well ... but hey, why the hack must they look like a "psychadelic mama" ???

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 02 Sep 2009, 19:28

....or vampirella

With less than 400 polygons for the face I'll use this base object for different characters without having to worry about construction. a pinup, a monster or an idiot...

DesignDevil · Post by **DesignDevil** » 02 Sep 2009, 19:32

*hahaha* .... okidoki

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 02 Sep 2009, 21:28

DesignDevil wrote:*hahaha* .... okidoki

---or a baby! I think you know what i mean

Jack Edwards · Post by **Jack Edwards** » 03 Sep 2009, 12:31

This looks great Marcel!

I wonder if it will animate well without the loops though?

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 03 Sep 2009, 14:00

Thank for the comments.
i have not do that for animation. I think to do illustrations but it is possible to do morph. I can use keyframe and move vertice as I move vertice to modify the head. I think to anim a head is too complex for trueSpace. It is possible but it is a big work and i have no time for that. It is better to use a specialized soft for facial and body animation. Not my need today.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 04 Sep 2009, 22:59

New update less "psychadelic mama"

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 04 Sep 2009, 23:14

Marcel it looks amazing, terrific, GREAT, best.
I'll be very proud of my self if I can do half than you can.

Finis · Post by **Finis** » 04 Sep 2009, 23:30

Your method is working well. Very versatile.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 05 Sep 2009, 14:06

Thank!

Here is some step when i did the basic model. It is a man model but it was not difficult to move some vertices to change the model and do a woman. Because we have all the same anatomy the structure is the same even if some details disappear in women. They are attenuated but the structure is still there.

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 09 Sep 2009, 18:51

Recent edits: eyelashes, lips, ...

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 10 Sep 2009, 11:09

...and now the texture of the skin.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 11 Sep 2009, 18:50

marcel wrote:Thank for the comments.
i have not do that for animation. I think to do illustrations but it is possible to do morph. I can use keyframe and move vertice as I move vertice to modify the head. I think to anim a head is too complex for trueSpace. It is possible but it is a big work and i have no time for that. It is better to use a specialized soft for facial and body animation. Not my need today.

Well if you dont use shortcuts it is but my thread about workflow is based upon the same problem.
The trick is to not go from a base mesh and subdevide but rather use a finished basic head like the one you made and use the softselection
tool and make morph targets thats also possible with Truespace but is more elegant in Poser and daz studio.
But its possible in Truespace ....... you just make and use morphs..

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 11 Sep 2009, 19:17

Rayman: You are right. The sds is only used to do several head from the base mesh later. I am not sure to try to animate this objet but do you know some tutorials about use of softselection tool and morph with truespace?
Thank.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 11 Sep 2009, 19:44

Marcel its very simple you just use the softselection tool on the workspace side and use the widget to move the mesh in and out.
you have to hit morph target each time you got a morph that you want to store and dont forget to store the default pose...
I will make a short clip......
But its no surprise that I use a different workflow i use Poser as the morphing exporter for animations
Peter

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 11 Sep 2009, 19:54

I don't know well the workspace and i never used morph tool. Thank if you can help me.

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 11 Sep 2009, 20:15

just posted the softselection the morph is easy too you hit the morph tool button and that applies a morph target and puts you into edit mode
you choose your tool and move your vertexes . If you go to default pose in the dropdown you can use your sliders to morph.
Very simple...
try it out !
Peter

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 11 Sep 2009, 21:37

Thank Peter! I will try these tools tomorrow. You are really helpful in the forum. I consider me as a newbie with the workspace but it gives me pleasure to discover new tools with TrueSpace. Those who know all do not have this luck.

Need to sleep...

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 11 Sep 2009, 23:40

That wasnt very much Marcel we are all learning and I´m doing that every day.....
I can learn a lot from you on model side....
The only problem that I found with the Truespace morph tool is that you cant load morphs from outside
but thats possible with Poser and I can remember you said in the Bot thread that you had that.
In an extrem case you could morph from an animal like a bird head to a human like I sort of did with zbrush in this
example.....

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 12 Sep 2009, 00:26

I was just observing this conversation and now I'll say what I think!
You both RAYMAN and marcel are one of the causes of me choose this community!!! RAYMAN you are totally in the 3D subject knowing the best tool and software to do some action, etc...
Marcel you are a long experienced gentlemen your words are pure knowledge!!!

And this tool is interesting

RAYMAN · Post by **RAYMAN** » 12 Sep 2009, 00:52

Thanks for the nice words we are just helping each other here....

noko · Post by **noko** » 12 Sep 2009, 01:28

This whole thread is a breath of fresh air. GREAT STUFF MARCEL! Love it when I see folks get inventive and do things a different way. If you have all quads, that would be better then most heads, I can't help but believe it would animate well. Love the keep it simple approach but not sacraficing the end result. GREAT STUFF HERE!

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 20 Sep 2009, 16:29

So Marcel, I'd like to know what happened to those faces, they already have a body?

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 21 Sep 2009, 18:30

I would not do body. I prefer to work the head. The model is near to be finished. Here are some improvements to the skin. The color changes with the direction of light. For glasses, I put some lights inside the glass. When the light is behind glass, it creates a halo on the skin. When the light is out, it creates a reflection on the glasses. Maybe i will use some heads for my animation B.O.T. I imagine the head behind the windows when they see centibots. Time to render is good for an animation because i don't use real caustic.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 21 Sep 2009, 18:48

Great Marcel, just to know some of the history of B.O.T. what centibots are? Humans still there right?

Edit: Which renderer you are using?

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 21 Sep 2009, 22:50

Leonregis: all you want to know about the story of B.O.T. are in the caligari forum. You can read there how each element was born and how many members give to me good idea for my project. It is more than a wip. It show what people can do when they share their experiences and feeling.
I use lightwork. It is the easiest and fastest way to working with truspace modelside. The lack of function can be easily subtitute by a clever use.

LeonRegis · Post by **LeonRegis** » 21 Sep 2009, 23:12

Interesting Marcel, you are an master with lightworks!!! I see that topic some time ago, you was a robotmaniac

This topic it's about heads so I'll stop by here...

Thanks

marcel · Post by **marcel** » 18 Mar 2010, 20:14

After several month I have time to improve my base object. The head is made with 471 polygons (without hair). is sufficient to obtain enough realism and keep a small number of control points. SDS does the rest.

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