United3dArtists Archive

Yes I am discouraged and I have been since the day I saw that Caligari was sold to Microsoft. I put a lot into trueSpace. Not just money - and trust me I put a lot into it from when I bought my first copy of version 5 and for upgrades since then up to 7.6. But I put a lot of effort in to create many scenes and animations with trueSpace. I bought a number of plug-ins to go with trueSpace. I chose and bought other programs that would fit in with trueSpace. I built a new quad core PC just to have the fastest PC I could afford to run trueSpace Essentially all of my 3D work was centered around trueSpace. I really thought it was going someplace in version 7 and most of all with VRay offered with it. Now I was achieving what I really wanted in all this time. I could create work I was truly happy with and impressed with. I thought that Caligari was really onto something with using Directx9 for rendering and animation.

That all ended then day that Roman sold out to Microsoft. It was touted as it was going to be Microsoft’s answer to SketchUp. But really there was no way tS could be a competitor to SketchUp. tS was too sophisticated for the casual user to use as you can with SketchUp. If Microsoft wanted competitor to SketchUp they should have just started on one from scratch or created a version of tS-Lite. The main reason I was discouraged the moment that I read that Microsoft bought Caligari is that I knew they would kill tS very soon. Microsoft have a long long history of buying a product and killing it and so it happened with trueSpace. Within weeks it was announced that copies of trueSpace would be available for free and within months the Caligari would be shut down and no further development would go on. I could still use my copy of trueSpace that is true and I thought I would for quite sometime. That is I could use till I updated to Windows 7. Then I discovered of all my software I had, trueSpace v7.61 had the most problems running under Windows 7. I have gotten to work fairly well under Windows 7 and I never have since then been able to get VRay to work under Windows 7. So now I have what is an essentially a $1400 software scrap heap that was once may main modeling and rendering program. Since my upgrade to Windows 7 and trueSpace stopped working as it did I really have lost all interest playing with and doing 3D art work. I never reinstalled Poser back after going to Windows 7 because I would take Poser scenes and import them into tS to render them. I have Rhino but I barely play with it because I rendered everything I created in trueSpace. I have a lot of work that was in progress that will never finish now. I was creating a cartoon series for story books for my daughter. Now it will never happen. I was working with a friend to recreate realistic images of some historical sites, but now that will never be finished My wife gave me money to upgrade my 3D software and I been sitting here since Christmas Day trying to decide what I want to invest in. But honestly I feel like a jilted lover. I just cannot bring myself to invest any more time and money in software that would not fill my needs like trueSpace did. Nor do I want to invest in something that may go away again. I know some here may point me to this patch or that patch that can get some things working. But it is just that, a patch not an upgrade

This is really a shame because as I said, I do feel that Roman was on to something when he created part of trueSpace to render using Directx9. Just imagine had he not sold out and now we had tS 8 now that rendered using Dx11. I am sure most of you have seen how realistic work done in Dx11 can get and can imagine having stunning real time renderings now using it. I just wish that Microsoft would at least release the tS code and let it be developed as open software as Blender is now. I think that trueSpace was better than Blender and to release it now it could soon be once again much better than Blender is.

I am not really expecting anything to come of this rant. I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Sorry but you have a totally wrong way of seeing things !
Sketchup that you so belittle is a very capeable piece of software built for architects in mind and used by
the majority of them its not anything lite its a very specialised program and you can get very much for free too
in the normal not pro version.
We know about Truespaces history and it is sad no question and we have been over all this many times so no
reason to repeat this but why on earth do you have a copy of Rhino and dont use it ?
Get yourself a copy of Moi3d thats the nearest you can get to the old model side Truespace !
Its 100 % copy and paste to Rhino fully compatible and get yourself a standalone renderer something like
Thea and you are set for many years to come.... A program like Hexagon floats around free on coverdiscs too....
No excuses not to do some renders....... !
The model side of Truespace isnt dead either so you can still get you some more time out of Truespace for modeling
Heck get yourself going again and stop ranting !
Peter

That your favourite hammer gets broken should not stop you from toying around. Just grab another hammer

trueSpace is still better for modeling than Blender. Blender has no N-Gons. And it will last at least until this summer before this changes, and Bmesh gets implemented into the main branch. But it may even then need a pretty while until Blender reaches the modeling level of trueSpace.

Tiles wrote:That your favourite hammer gets broken should not stop you from toying around. Just grab another hammer

trueSpace is still better for modeling than Blender. Blender has no N-Gons. And it will last at least until this summer before this changes, and Bmesh gets implemented into the main branch. But it may even then need a pretty while until Blender reaches the modeling level of trueSpace.

The only thing that Blender and Truespace have in common is the price at the moment.
Blender is a very capable program as such but modeling with Blender is a pain... it works the opposite to how Truespace did
and I never understood why those that supported Truespace are all over Blender now.
Truespace had all those shape based tools like path extrusions etc. and filleting and camphering and all that... Blender is basically
pushing and extruding polygons one by one....and all that you can only do fast if you memorize and use quite a large amount
of keybord shortcuts.........
The reason I mentioned a nurbs application above is that it uses basically the same toolset that the people loved from Truespace with the
bonus of unlimited boolean operations without messing up your mesh......
Hexagon is also very near to the way Truespace works or even Silo...
Nothing against learning Blender I do too but dont be let down if its not what you are looking for simplicity wise when modeling....
Peter
Here is an example of a path extrude just like in truespace and a clean boolean and a fillet on top....... try to do that in Blender... !

and all that you can only do fast if you memorize and use quite a large amount of keybord shortcuts

This has changed with 2.5X. You can in the worst case work without any hotkeys. Which is a bit cumbersome here and there, but possible. I even managed to have a setting where i don`t need any keyboards for navigation

But modeling in Blender is indeed a pain. This all belongs to the missing N-Gon support. No N-Gons means no proper loop handling, and this results in limited and bad modeling. But Blender has for example a working Bones System. It has Texture baking, Fluid Simulation, Sculpting, Projection painting, a working UV mapping with LSCM, and, and, and. It has even a movie cutting module onboard. It adds what is missing in trueSpace

Tiles wrote:

and all that you can only do fast if you memorize and use quite a large amount of keybord shortcuts

This has changed with 2.5X. You can in the worst case work without any hotkeys. Which is a bit cumbersome here and there, but possible. I even managed to have a setting where i don`t need any keyboards for navigation

But modeling in Blender is indeed a pain. This all belongs to the missing N-Gon support. No N-Gons means no proper loop handling, and this results in limited and bad modeling. But Blender has for example a working Bones System. It has Texture baking, Fluid Simulation, Sculpting, Projection painting, a working UV mapping with LSCM, and, and, and. It has even a movie cutting module onboard. It adds what is missing in trueSpace

Thats why i said Blender is a capable program but not for modeling.. and why i am learning Blender.....
But the majority think they can substitute modeling in truespace with modeling in Blender and they will wake up pretty soon even with ngon support....
Doing something that hurts all day long in the long run isnt a hobby or pleasure......
Even the coverdisc Hexagon is a quadruple bigger pleasure to use then Blender modeling....
Peter

Ok; so, what in tS Workspace does not work in Windows 7?

Do you have your Windows XP disc?
Would it be worth installing XP on a separate hard drive, or on a separate partition, so you can
have a dual boot system? Is it worth that effort, to use trueSpace on XP? Do you have a spare computer that
you can install XP on?
I have not encountered any problems with tS Workspace on Win 7 except for that Link editor refresh problem.
So I may be missing something here.

Yes updates from scriptors and plugin developers do indeed come slowly, but they are good updates.

Making trueSpace source code publicly available, in my opinion, would not help. Why? Because some critical components
of the core code are simply poorly designed and implemented. Poor design decisions. These components are deeply integrated
with the rest of the core code. Attempting to modify/replace these defective components would ultimately result in modifying
other core components considerably. It would be better to start from scratch, in order to have an application with a long lifespan.

There is an awful lot of blame given to Caligari and Microsoft causing you to
not create 3D work anymore. This has caused you to stop using Rhino, Poser and creating artwork
for your kids?!!!... If you where a species you would be extinct my friend...

"I never have since then been able to get VRay to work under Windows 7"
Your the first one to mention that VRay doesn't work in Windows7.

Funny how a lot of us keep kicking out artwork WITH trueSpace. We have learned to adapt.

Ya know Froo I have had some issues with TS and Win 7, that is why I had to revert back to XP, but I do plan on doing a dual boot as I like WIN 7. I had considered learing Blender or some other program, but really the Model side does just that, and it does it very well. Sure it may be getting dated, but remember it was well ahead of it's time when it came out.

the way to do it, Model and Animate it in Workspace then export it as a collada or x file format then texture it to other soft. Workspace animation editor is so powerful and fast thats why I still use it.

I am waiting for blender to fast beta and will use it as renderer and particle stuff, but animation in workspace and modeling.

I forgot physics in workspace really good

rjeff wrote:Ya know Froo I have had some issues with TS and Win 7, that is why I had to revert back to XP, but I do plan on doing a dual boot as I like WIN 7. I had considered learing Blender or some other program, but really the Model side does just that, and it does it very well. Sure it may be getting dated, but remember it was well ahead of it's time when it came out.

Rjeff there isnt anything like dated modeling tools....... there are only different implementations and the one of Truespace was a very easy to use one....
As long as they work for you they are what you need.....
There are other implementations of polygon modeling but they dont have to be as easy to use as Truespace has ever been....
Peter

DarkScythe wrote:the way to do it, Model and Animate it in Workspace then export it as a collada or x file format then texture it to other soft. Workspace animation editor is so powerful and fast thats why I still use it.

I am waiting for blender to fast beta and will use it as renderer and particle stuff, but animation in workspace and modeling.

I forgot physics in workspace really good

Both Truespace workspace side physics and blenders workspace side Physics and softbody are very powerfull... they can even be used outside of the
programm exported as Collada.... but that has nothing to do with Blenders modeling experience....
Peter

Oke, here are my 2 cents...

i tell you what... i will keep win XP x64 as long as possible and I think tS7 is great enought to create whatever I want to. In fact we can be lucky, that it stopped with 7.6 and not 5 or 6. We have all major features essentially needed. More features just makes things easy, but almost all is possible with 7.6 already. I was enjoying to kick ass with cheap tS to all "pro" soft like 3d max. To prove that tS can do it too. Blender is app from Mars, never get it how it works. Totally uncomfortable crap, unintuitive controls. I would die using it. I will find ways to use tS as long as I can. And then? well I really dont know if there is some "then". but i dont want to think about it much. Maybe I will try to switch to cinema or something, but i think this will not be necessary for a long time yet. And I still hope that something happens and tS will live again somehow. Anyway 3D is fun for me, but 3D in tS to be more accurate! modeling in blender would NOT be fun. Like I enjoy driving my car not that I reached the destination ;)

bitkar wrote: Totally uncomfortable crap, unintuitive controls.

It isnt as that bad ! Blender isnt that difficult to use either and quite intuitive... apart from the different way of modeling..
I just had Xsi mod tool (free)open again.. that is overwhelming.. Blender is nothing against that...
Quite honestly I guess all of you will sooner or later migrate .......look into new applications now all you guys lose is time
and it takes longer to accomodate.. you dont have to give up Truespace for it ... just ad new things to your learning experience......
The most important thing is that this site becomes a general 3d site because it wouldnt be nice to see you guys disperse into
many directions... most of all i´d miss my daily cafe here.... not an application itself... I´m more interested in people then tools itself....
I´ve dchanged my tools quite often in my life but i am still in contact with a lot of people that I´ve learned to know.....
Peter

I'm afraid I have to agree with bitkar, Blender isn't easy to learn or even work with for that matter. I rather learn one 3d program there modeling is fun than spend all my time learning new 3d programs that have one or more different features. It's easy to get discouraged by the overwhelming difficulty of a 3d program such as Blender.
Think about it, what is the most powerful tool you use when you model a creation? It's your brain, your imagination. A 3d program is nothing more than the paper and pencil you use to depict your idea in the real world.


Also, RAYMAN, you see a 3d program as a way to meet new people? That is certainly an unusual view

MikomDude wrote:I'm afraid I have to agree with bitkar, Blender isn't easy to learn or even work with for that matter. I rather learn one 3d program there modeling is fun than spend all my time learning new 3d programs that have one or more different features. It's easy to get discouraged by the overwhelming difficulty of a 3d program such as Blender.
Think about it, what is the most powerful tool you use when you model a creation? It's your brain, your imagination. A 3d program is nothing more than the paper and pencil you use to depict your idea in the real world.


Also, RAYMAN, you see a 3d program as a way to meet new people? That is certainly an unusual view

You see this site as a 3d Program ? I talked about this site not a program..... !
Any program that you learn new takes some time to get used to and learn . Even Truespace took some time to learn....
Once youve understood how Blender works it isnt as difficult as it looks like but the main problem with Blenders modeling tools
is the lack of them.....
Your basically apending polygons one by one and doing that for the whole time that isnt fun.
I dont like this type of modeling thats why I use something different......
Has nothing to do with Blenders power for other things .....
like softbody dyn or fluid etc.
Your brain is a powerfull mechanism but you still need something to get your imagination onto paper
Peter

MikomDude wrote:you see a 3d program as a way to meet new people? That is certainly an unusual view :)

Maybe unusual, but true.
I've met (well, virtually, mostly) people from across the globe thru trueSpace.
Many I consider friends, some I still talk to daily.

The active, intelligent user base was always one of tS's charms!

tS is sort of in a odd phase...it looks like it's frozen in carbonite but if you look 'round back of the block it's melting a little from some glowing embers, possibly located deep within the Link Editor.

It's not perfect, no program ever is, but tS can still be a heck of a lot of fun, and for a lot of different reasons.

I almost gave up on TS. Then I slapped my self and said no way. I have decided to button down and learn the some of the new tools and become a better artist using TS. I may use an outside render program such as Bryce 7 or others, but TS is the best modler I have used bar none.

What I don't understand is how Caligari succeeded in f*cking up how Truespace works in Windows 7 since Windows 7 basically is Vista with patches.
Didn't they follow Microsoft programming guidelines? If they had, it should have worked in Windows 7 since it worked in Win XP and Vista...

But I guess Caligari often had strange ideas - for instance, the backward menu-bar in Truespace 6x (that went up inside of down - it was a "drop up" menu) is one of the few thing that doesn't work in Wine if you try to run it under Linux.

I think that is perhaps the most disappointing with the TS saga - that it doesn't really work when you use new Windows versions. I suspect this will continue to be a problem with Windows 8 as well....
That is a bit sad - I have some software that I started to use when Windows XP was new that still works in Windows 7 - if you follow the guidelines and write good software, it can be used for a long time even after it is officially "dead".

However, since Truespaces last version doesn't even work as it should on a version of Windows that was developed before TS was "killed" we will all be forced to abandon it rather soon - as we all upgrade to Win 7 or later (which will happen for most off us during the next few years).
It's sad that Caligari didn't made a working version of TS 7 that would work on Windows for at least a couple of versions - then we could have continued to use it for many years to come but now this will be cut short.

compPanda wrote:What I don't understand is how Caligari succeeded in f*cking up how Truespace works in Windows 7 since Windows 7 basically is Vista with patches.
Didn't they follow Microsoft programming guidelines? If they had, it should have worked in Windows 7 since it worked in Win XP and Vista....

Well to be honest i didnt understand that they started a new project and didnt make it 64 bit compatible anyways.......
while Lightwave was out in a 64 bit version for that already.
To be honest I dont see the big problems coming from windows versions but also from graphic card drivers.....
Not everybody has the privleg of running a seperate computer for Truespace.
I´m pretty interested though in a project phoenix where something comes out that is futureproof and is easy to use like Truespace was.
Icon oriented and not keyboard with some decent modern render engine be it free or not.
I am not a friend of building upon 7.6.. ! Something that doesnt belong to a big company like the situation is now
Start small and build upon the basics step by step dont overfreight the whole thing.
Ts 7 wanted to much and failed upon the basics......it was a step back from TS6 in many areas....
The comunnity had to build the lights and the controls for them as an example .. the material editor was a step back etc. etc......( a joke)
If i were to plan something I´d start with an application of the size of silo and build an exporter and use the staging capabilities of a stanalone suite
something like Thea... you wouldnt have to build a material system and lights etc and cameras or an instancing system... just start with the model tools.. start very small
no animation for starts...
Modo started that way....
Maybe even rib export for renderman compliant engines like 3 Delight...
Peter

Aren't a lot of the Win7 issues down to 64bit machines? if thats the case TS was also a bit dodgy on Vista and XP running as 64 bit along with other 32bit 3D software I can think of, was Win7 released when TS was shut down? don't think it was and I guess most of the programmers were more worried about how they would feed there families.
I'm a software beta tester and you get to realise how many sleepless nights the developers have trying to please everyone and how hard the job they do actually is.
I can't really understand why people are still beating Truespace with a big stick, there is a load of people still doing awesome work with TS, some need to adapt and maybe dual boot so it still works, others (like me) use other options to over come TS's short falls and learn other software, I use quite a few in conjunction with TS.
I've used TS since version 2 and its like an old friend, ok there's never going to be a version 8 but FFS I'm still happier using 6.6, I never got on well with Workspace and I just don't need it, I use Sketchup for a lot of things now and Blender for UV mapping and fluid sim, I can also texture my TS stuff a render to Thea from Blender

nigec wrote: I guess most of the programmers were more worried about how they would feed there families.

No the problem how i see it was that Roman actually wanted to much.... the goal for TS 7 was to high but it failed in the basics
Not so the Truespace versions up to Version Ts 6. They were artist tools...... Ts 7 wanted to be a programmers tool....
something with 3 layers scripting...... linking and 3d layer something that the classical user base didnt ask for....
they wanted something easy to use... easy modeling and easy lighting with a decent render engine all what versions up to TS6 had.
The end we know .... Ts only with realtime and no render engine at all....
In fact Sketchup is also an application that needs a big overhaul pretty soon and support for 64 bit too... the owners need to do something about that too
the cries in the userbase for larger models with more components in the scenes especialy coming from architects that make
big projects are very loud too !
Peter

What he should of done was had a open-ish beta run and worked from the feedback and got reliable and useful bug reports then gradually worked through the issues and keep 6.6 as the main app, maybe add some bug fixs and eye candy to keep it current, hell Sketchup and Carrara didn't do huge changes for their version 8's.
At least that way you don't get "Truespace is Great" or cr*p, people would of gone out of their way to report bugs in a useful way and less likely to slag the software off.. thats what I'd of done

nigec wrote:What he should of done was had a open-ish beta run and worked from the feedback and got reliable and useful bug reports then gradually worked through the issues and keep 6.6 as the main app, maybe add some bug fixs and eye candy to keep it current, hell Sketchup and Carrara didn't do huge changes for their version 8's.
At least that way you don't get "Truespace is Great" or cr*p, people would of gone out of their way to report bugs in a useful way and less likely to slag the software off.. thats what I'd of done

instead of that we had seasoned truespacers including Andy that left during that time basically over the frustration.....
I prefer the way things are handled in open beta and that system works.. I´ve been on quite a few too !
Peter

nigec wrote:Aren't a lot of the Win7 issues down to 64bit machines? if thats the case TS was also a bit dodgy on Vista and XP running as 64 bit along with other 32bit 3D software I can think of, was Win7 released when TS was shut down?

No, this isn't the case. TS 7x works perfectly on a Win XP 64 bit, so it isn't related to the 64 bit issue. It also works, as far as I have tested (which isn't so much) on Vista 64 bit.
It is actually a bit strange that it does work on Vista and not on Win 7 - since the big change from XP to Vista was the display drivers and system. Between Windows 7 and Vista this wasn't changed at all.

RAYMAN wrote: No the problem how i see it was that Roman actually wanted to much.... the goal for TS 7 was to high but it failed in the basics
Not so the Truespace versions up to Version Ts 6. They were artist tools...... Ts 7 wanted to be a programmers tool....
something with 3 layers scripting...... linking and 3d layer something that the classical user base didnt ask for....
they wanted something easy to use... easy modeling and easy lighting with a decent render engine all what versions up to TS6 had.
The end we know .... Ts only with realtime and no render engine at all....
In fact Sketchup is also an application that needs a big overhaul pretty soon and support for 64 bit too... the owners need to do something about that too
the cries in the userbase for larger models with more components in the scenes especialy coming from architects that make
big projects are very loud too !
Peter

In my opinion so did Roman killed Truespace with the emphasis on online worlds and online creation. The only renderer for the new Workspace, the Vray, wasn't a standard component and when it became discontinued I saw the writing on the wall - TS was going to die.

I said it then and I continue to say it - the 3D web that Roman dreamed of isn't going to happend until we have real 3D display units (and I am not even sure that it will be a total revolution then either). And no, the new "3D displays" that is coming isn't 3D - they are stereoscopic. When we have devices like the 3D planning table in Avatar then it might become a reality. Until then we only have a crude 2D view into the Internet so there isn't much to gain by making it 3D.
We have also seen this "3D Webb" come and go in several incarnations now. First it was VRLM that was the big deal. Last it was Second Life. All of these ideas of 3D webb have become huge fiascos.

The pursiut of this 3D webb was the thing that killed Truespace. When it become clear that the "future" of Truespace didn't have a default offline renderer and when Caligari stopped selling and supporting the optional Vray, then TS was effectivly dead.
It wasn't the Microsoft deal that killed Truespace - TS was already dead then because of this online focus.

trueSpace is dead! Long live trueSpace!!


I too am running tS 7.61 on Windows 7 64bit with no problems!
Just had to add the LE fix and all other scripts just add functionality.
I've gained extra ram for trueSpace (closer to 4 gb as apposed to XP where I
was maxing at about 1.5 gb.

So if your having problems, I'd say it must be hardware/driver related.

Rayman you say "the material editor was a step back etc. etc......( a joke)"
That tells me you haven't really checked out it's options/settings very well.
Some people on the Modo forum have been screaming for a node based shader
system. I realize you are probably not going to use the workspace anyways, and
I don't care if you do or not, but you really need to know how something works
before passing judgment.

As far as the LE is concerned it's really just an alternative (and better
one in my opinion) to the stack.

I agree that the one thing that turned me off of trueSpace marketing hype
was the Social Network part, but I still think the 3D collaboration (modeling,
texturing, etc.) was genus and way ahead of it's time.

other software profit from colaboration features. You need it, when you have a big project and team of many ppl. About 3d web, tS had wrml feature many years ago, not in 7.6. Main problem was lack of 3rd party support - renderers etc. but 7.6 made a great step ahead with vray and ability to add a render engine (as vray).

bitkar wrote:other software profit from colaboration features. You need it, when you have a big project and team of many ppl. About 3d web, tS had wrml feature many years ago, not in 7.6. Main problem was lack of 3rd party support - renderers etc. but 7.6 made a great step ahead with vray and ability to add a render engine (as vray).

As I recall, TS had the ability to save WRML files from model side in TS 7? I don't have any TS before me so that I can verify this - hower it isn't directly intresting either since I only mentioned it as an example of online 3D technology that was hyped and then died.

I realise the need for colaboration but I don't think that it should be in the 3D software in a 3D form. I don't know of any big 3D project that have used any kind of 3D environment for making the project. The usual way is that you use CVS for the files and shares notes with Wiki or other tools. There is for instance an intresting documentary of the making of Sintel on Youtube (the documentary much longer than the movie it is about, kind of funny) which shows how they colaborated.

danperk wrote:trueSpace is dead! Long live trueSpace!!


I too am running tS 7.61 on Windows 7 64bit with no problems!
Just had to add the LE fix and all other scripts just add functionality.
I've gained extra ram for trueSpace (closer to 4 gb as apposed to XP where I
was maxing at about 1.5 gb.

So if your having problems, I'd say it must be hardware/driver related.

Rayman you say "the material editor was a step back etc. etc......( a joke)"
That tells me you haven't really checked out it's options/settings very well.
Some people on the Modo forum have been screaming for a node based shader
system. I realize you are probably not going to use the workspace anyways, and
I don't care if you do or not, but you really need to know how something works
before passing judgment.

As far as the LE is concerned it's really just an alternative (and better
one in my opinion) to the stack.

I agree that the one thing that turned me off of trueSpace marketing hype
was the Social Network part, but I still think the 3D collaboration (modeling,
texturing, etc.) was genus and way ahead of it's time.

Oh yeah sure it was so easy to make node based materials for Vray or for Lightworks.. eha yeah right.....
just for a short glanz into the past wasnt the node based editor a realtime renderer thing...... if I remember.....(scratches my own head... D3d editor Dx9 material
now where is the node based material for offline rendering... not there.. well thats all I was doing with it at that time.... offline rendering... )
Not until quite some time after that I found out that I could use some capabilities of the link editor for export with collada to vue...... but offline rendering
nope that wasnt planed to be.....
social networking that was in the end the only thing i loved to use with truespace 7 ... I enjoyed everyone of the meetings we had in shared spaces.....
Yes I felt ahead of time with that.. it was great fun !
Peter

The initial complaint that started this thread stated that trueSpace doesn't run right with Windows7.
Others have stated that they have no issues running under Windows7 64 bit. From everything I have read through this site the errors received have been unique to the user and not to the operating system. Why are we then worrying about the future so much? Maybe the hardware is not compatible and should be switched. I think there is a promising future for us quite honestly.
We just have to make it work. There is a lot going on so the future is bright.
I would rather spend my time making 3D art then worry about the sky falling.
Just my 2 cents.

Steinie wrote:The initial complaint that started this thread stated that trueSpace doesn't run right with Windows7.
Others have stated that they have no issues running under Windows7 64 bit. From everything I have read through this site the errors received have been unique to the user and not to the operating system. Why are we then worrying about the future so much? Maybe the hardware is not compatible and should be switched. I think there is a promising future for us quite honestly.
We just have to make it work. There is a lot going on so the future is bright.
I would rather spend my time making 3D art then worry about the sky falling.
Just my 2 cents.

All the errors that will come in the future will be unique to the user as I said in one of the posts above I dont think that the Os will be a problem in the future but the graphic cards and the drivers....
Yes the future is bright though...
Peter

That all ended then day that Roman sold out to Microsoft. It was touted as it was going to be Microsoft’s answer to SketchUp. But really there was no way tS could be a competitor to SketchUp. tS was too sophisticated for the casual user to use as you can with SketchUp.

Truespace, is a gazillion times easier to use then Sketchup.

RAYMAN wrote:

danperk wrote:trueSpace is dead! Long live trueSpace!!


I too am running tS 7.61 on Windows 7 64bit with no problems!
Just had to add the LE fix and all other scripts just add functionality.
I've gained extra ram for trueSpace (closer to 4 gb as apposed to XP where I
was maxing at about 1.5 gb.

So if your having problems, I'd say it must be hardware/driver related.

Rayman you say "the material editor was a step back etc. etc......( a joke)"
That tells me you haven't really checked out it's options/settings very well.
Some people on the Modo forum have been screaming for a node based shader
system. I realize you are probably not going to use the workspace anyways, and
I don't care if you do or not, but you really need to know how something works
before passing judgment.

As far as the LE is concerned it's really just an alternative (and better
one in my opinion) to the stack.

I agree that the one thing that turned me off of trueSpace marketing hype
was the Social Network part, but I still think the 3D collaboration (modeling,
texturing, etc.) was genus and way ahead of it's time.

Oh yeah sure it was so easy to make node based materials for Vray or for Lightworks.. eha yeah right.....
just for a short glanz into the past wasnt the node based editor a realtime renderer thing...... if I remember.....(scratches my own head... D3d editor Dx9 material
now where is the node based material for offline rendering... not there.. well thats all I was doing with it at that time.... offline rendering... )
Not until quite some time after that I found out that I could use some capabilities of the link editor for export with collada to vue...... but offline rendering
nope that wasnt planed to be.....
social networking that was in the end the only thing i loved to use with truespace 7 ... I enjoyed everyone of the meetings we had in shared spaces.....
Yes I felt ahead of time with that.. it was great fun !
Peter

Rayman why so condescending? Do you use tS 7.61 Workspace? Of course Vray and Lightworks ME wasn't node based in the stack
but you can work with them in the LE. You can set up a material for Vray and then build an equivalent material for the DX shader for
onscreen proxy for things like texture scaling, positioning etc. all without scripting. Vray can use a DX9 shader and understands Texture
and Bump Maps. All this aside the ME for Vray/Lightworks works fine for me, what problems are you having with it???

The reason I get a little worked up about these kinds of threads is that I think people react emotionally because they still carry hard feelings
for Roman or Caligari for not making tS 7.x an improved tS 6.6. Well that didn't happen, get over it! The net result is that there are probably
people that don't even give it a chance to see if it's a program they can use and surprise, may even like!

danperk wrote:

RAYMAN wrote:

danperk wrote:trueSpace is dead! Long live trueSpace!!
The reason I get a little worked up about these kinds of threads is that I think people react emotionally because they still carry hard feelings
for Roman or Caligari for not making tS 7.x an improved tS 6.6. Well that didn't happen, get over it! The net result is that there are probably
people that don't even give it a chance to see if it's a program they can use and surprise, may even like!

First of all I didnt start the thread here and the reason why it started is that more and more people are going to get problems with it in the future
because of hardware and driver incompatibilities.. Thats normal with every software that doesnt get upgraded over time.
Some will have more problems then others...
Yes I do use the workspace side and this software isnt the only one I use. So I know how a material system can look like and I know how
the controls of light can look like and all I said was what some of us said when TS 7 was made.I dont say great to everything around..
I´m not against Truespace at all.. I always liked Truespace and many people in the 3d industry have even started with it.
It isnt a pleasure to start with a program like Maya that although its industry standard is daunting for a newbie...
Or lightwave that relys upon thousands of plugins....
There is no emotional reaction at all its just that as a user of what we have we also give feedback to other people....
i say what i like and dislike about it and i do that about everything and thats more helpfull for others that want to adopt a new technology
then a shut up let them be discouraged themselves because thats the title of this thread.....
or is your take on it the latin saying "de mortuis nihil nisi bene " ?
If you ask 3dfrog he can tell you how often we ran into bugs in the animation system of the program and how usefull the version 1 bones system was.....
Vray understands texturing and bump maps.... great ! My car has a steering wheel..
Well the material systems i normally use are a bit more refind then that...all of them...even the old Carrara pro version from a coverdisc..
Yes like I said even Model side Truespace....symbionts or darktrees in Workspaceside nada...
It took 3 people to make controls for the light that should have been installed in the first place and model side had for ages...
Guess what some of us still think that workspace side wasnt finished when it was released.....my 2 cents..

Great, now your quoting Latin...
wiki, wiki, wiki....
It would only be bad to speak ill of the dead if it was half or twisted truths.

Rayman said "Vray understands texturing and bump maps.... great ! My car has a steering wheel.."
(sounds like an Andy K quote)

I said Vray understands DX9 node based textures and bump maps. The rest or all can be done with the
Vray Material Editor which has the same functionality as tS 6.6 ME. But of course you've used it so you know this.

Never have I told you you should shut up, just do your research if your going to give people a true
idea of what the software is really about. As far as bugs are concerned, yes tS has many bugs (ask Tiles).
I know you are a Vue user, that program is riddled with bugs and an engine badly in need of a total overhaul.
Do you tell new user about that, not that I've seen.

Anyways, I'm done with this, you are not the person I'm trying to reach, your mind is already closed.

Bye Bye

Now come on guys! No need to get personal on this!
Advise and Dissent is a good thing but let's keep it civil!

Regarding the animation system, the developer was making progress on the algorithm
and it was almost there, but unfortunately that version could not be included in beta 8
since it was not functional. That's ok. I know the developer. muwahahah!
Well several of us do! hehe Anyway.

Yeah from what I hear the material system is not so good either in Workspace; I don't do much
texturing so no experience there. Hm.... I'd like to talk to some of you who use material
systems extensively. I always wanted to ask about it but had no time for it.

I´m saying all this not to bash Truespace which wouldnt have any reason but to point
to any of the weaknesses .If anybody here has the idea to make something like a program like Truespace was (hint hint).. well those are in my
opinion the areas where it shouldnt be copied...
Yes Vue also has bugs and I did say it here in the forum some long time ago and if you find it I also said that the service
at the helpdesk was also pretty zealous.... Quite frankly I have´nt had any program in my life that didnt have bugs...
some more and some less and its also a question of hardware and software combined.
I also think that Vue needs an overhaul sooner or later but not so badly.. they are already on full 64 bit support
and if you look at the size of the projects that can be done in it.... its not as necessary as some other programs need it.....
But yes eventualy some of the realtime capabilities that we see elswhere will be introduced there too !
Froo yes there is a lot to say about material systems and in my opininion the Vue Danpark pointed out as an example of bugs is also a pretty good example of one of the
most detailed material systems there is and that including animation for all components and a node based system underneath.....(infinite version)
Froo what you pointed out regarding the animation system underlines what I said the project animation for workspace was an unfinished project (work in progress)...
Peter

here I found my post about the Vue problems i had and that it was solved by the helpdesk..
vi ... 247#p19247"

froo wrote:Ok; so, what in tS Workspace does not work in Windows 7?

Do you have your Windows XP disc?
Would it be worth installing XP on a separate hard drive, or on a separate partition, so you can
have a dual boot system? Is it worth that effort, to use trueSpace on XP? Do you have a spare computer that
you can install XP on? . . . .

I took your advice. Before I upgraded to Windows 7 I had made a image back up of my Windows XP system drive. I had a spare drive around so I added it to my PC and re-installed my XP drive image and set the PC up for a dual boot. Now I can use XP anytime I want and back to playing with trueSpace.

when I see this kind of conversation (few post above) I think of women who discuss their latest fashionable clothes. There are those who are proud, those who are jealous of not being able to buy, those who are sure to be the most beautiful and those who are never happy. But none is granted regardless of whether their clothes match their needs and not their social status. I do not know if this is more fun than boring. Maybe because I'm not interested in politics.