United3dArtists Archive

Yes that is my question, could Caligari or an M$ version of trueSpace return as a commercial product again. I feel it could with a tS v8 that included support for DX11, GPU rendering and more improvements to physics and animation. I just want to know what others here think too.

Hey Mike.
I think so, though, not as a Caligari/MS product.
I know that sounds odd but, anyway that's what I think.

I was never a huge believer in Roman's vision of where trueSpace was going. An application for the Web was bogus to me. However there is a lot of magic in our current trueSpace version and lots to like about it. Can it be continued or better yet should it be continued?...
If it is continued half of the current user base would want improvements to the Modeler side. The other half would want a workSpace environment that supports 64 bit computers. A new application that can give us the best of both would certainly get some interest from new users to the 3D world. Pricing alone would make it desirable.
Realistically and as time will tell trueSpace is dead. (my honest opinion)

I would love to see TS go on. Espeically with improvments like "large address aware" and things like the CPU/GPU hybrid would boost render speeds alot. Froo why don't you get on these things..you are smart!

dead..one never knows..will microsoft sell it off? that would be best.

Should this happen, it would be a different software and probably incompatible with the model side. software to do what? the same as everyone else does? by then, most of us have migrated elsewhere and will not have the courage to come back if it is to start from scratch, especially if their new software are powerful. I did not even take the time to study the workspace. I would go directly from the model side to something else when I would be obliged to do so.

well... I also wish ms could sell it, maybe back to Roman. I still hope that Roman will not let his child die.

my vision of tS8 is a workspace (roseta) engine with modeler look and workflow and the right pane and bottom animation part. Support of OpenCL for rendering, directX, export to some free GI renderer, maybe the newest Lightworks too. Maybe 64bit version would be nice.

bitkar wrote:...I still hope that Roman will not let his child die...

Well, I would love to know, what is currently his child ..?

As for remaining part of ypor post, it's rather a dream. But a nice one ...though

What is the purpose of doing so ?
To get easy to use software that is powerfull ?
There is so much around that falls into that category.......
I just dont like these big programs because you dont see the woods with all the trees.......
i like it small and easy .... and thats also greater fun.....
Peter

I think when we make a single image, we tend to want to do everything on the same software. From the moment we make a real design project or a complex animation, needs change (industrial files, special effects, etc. ...). we quickly understand that it takes more than one software, more than one method. then it become a normal working environment. Unless we are a specialist of a single program on a team, the choice is what is simple, specialized and corresponds exactly to our needs. therefore the ideal and universal software does not exist. There are too many different trades.

You know the story about the monkey, the orange, and the jar? The monkey reached into the jar to get the orange but as long as he holds it he can't pull his hand out. He refuses to let go of the orange and just sits there with his hand stuck in the jar and no orange to eat. TrueSpace monkeys need to let go.

One of nature's laws: Adapt or Die.

Let go of TS. There are plenty of 3D programs to use. For a while, TS can still be one of them, but it will go away.

Let go of the interface. We all want the ultimately powerful program with the super-easy interface and to get it for free. Grow up and stop being a wimp. There are programs with decent levels of ability and decent interfaces. There are mega-powerful ones but with technical interfaces for professionals. There are cheap/free ones that are strong in some ways but weak in others (TS, Blender). You have to be willing to learn new things and apply the effort needed to achieve. If you want the goodies then do the work needed to get them.

You'll find that the jar with the TS orange is in an orchard. Let go of the (dead rotten) orange, take your hand out of the jar, and pick some fresh tasty 3D fruit from the awesome abundance of the orchard.

I disagree, if you like trueSpace, why couldn't you keep using that for as long as you keep modeling? tS will never stop working and it does it's job well enough to match any other 3D program. I mean, where is the limit? How good does a 3d program have to be for it to be professional?

TS can continue to be relevant to the people that want to use it for many years. You can still do great things with it if you want to. As long as TS users can export models to other products for more advanced/desirable functionality it can still be very useful.

If you are happy with what you accomplish using TS alone there is no need to be unhappy with TS.

Many of us who bought TS dreamed of the all in one product and to a large extent that is what we got. The reality is that many of us who hoped for the all in one really did not understand the larger picture. That being, that many tools are used to create images and animation.

The expectation that one tool would suit us entirely can only be satisfied if the tool we choose produces everything that we, or our customers, could possibly want. A terrible burden to place on any one tool.

TS is a part of my overall toolkit. When it comes time to push polys I still prefer the point editing tools in workspace over anything else I have touched.

I have a lot more learning to do to be a really good 3d artist and a lot more learning to do to dominate the tools I have chosen to use and I am thankful that TS gave me the baseline experience I needed.

I am also thankful that I had the opportunity to learn from the members of the Caligari forums and the people here.

@Finis: monkey will leave the orange when it will rotten, but his appetite will be increased tenfold.
Today the question is what software to complete TS. And tomorrow what software to replace TS. The transition will be natural and gradually without asking any questions. just a question of time different for everyone.

marcel wrote: monkey will leave the orange when it will rotten

True. And nothing wrong with using TS while it still works for you with reasonable effort. I'm talking about those who seem obsessed with keeping TS long term, who put enormous effort in to keeping it, or who want to move but aren't willing to deal with a less user friendly interface etc. Whenever TS is rotten for them they will refuse to see it and will starve rather than get another orange.

The thread was about TS returning. IMO it won't. Not from MS. Unlikely but MS might make something from it but we won't recognize that as TS. I think they bought Caligari to get Roman, not to get TS. They want his innovative ideas for other things.

While not TS itself and not just like it the features that we like or want in TS are in other software. I hear that some are fairly easy to use with sensible interfaces. Realtime rendering is appearing here and there. GI rendering is out there. Many such things are in the world of 3D whether in TS or not. So get them and use them.

Hm well I don't see tS coming back from the dead that's for sure.
But, as for seeing a Microsoft product, evolved partially from tS
technology... I would say, all you have to do is look at Kinect.

There was a demo video around, I guess a year ago, where a spokesperson
interacted with an avatar; she threw a piece of paper over the monitor; the avatar
picked it up. Something like that. It reminded me of a trueSpace beta video, showing
avatars interacting with an active environment. Chairs and tables were moving; the
avatar was walking around, avoiding obstacles as it progressed.

Anyway. That's only a hypothesis, but MS bought the engineering talent, and the
technology capability.

Logging in for the first time in months I have to ask myself 'didn't we get over this issue already?'

Crikey, the company went, the program remains unsupported by the staff, thats nothing new, both in terms of this community and in terms of business and users who want to move on have already moved on, those who haven't for whatever reason have stuck with it. For example, Truespace is pretty certain to be my only and last 3D software becasue I no longer am in a position to make 3D my career

Those who make 3D their career like Marcel have found a way around Truespace's limitations and are fully aware that it's not industry standard, and those who think they need something more powerful have already jumped ship, those who want to support it will support it because they can and were given the tools and they are bloody well allowed to do so if they want to spend their time on it

The amount of topics spent on this general discussion is rivalled only by the derailed topics about global conflict or warming or otherwise

I fail to see this reccuring issue
Program unsupported: Change Program Y/N

tS stopped its development luckily in a "good enough conditions". I think it reached a very capable state. Only think I dislike is few bugs. If anyone could fix them, it could be really great.

Well, the whole discussion would make perfectly sense, if TrueSace wasn't freeware. I know, gentlemen do not talk about money, but costs are weighting the opinions quite considerably.
The really good comparison to monkey and oranges shows some mismatch at this point. Monkeys obviously don't need to buy oranges.

It would be interesting if some of the developers of TS did start a new project though, not based on the core of TS, but based on what they learned developing TS and based on what is happening in the 3D market today. That might be a very interesting project to look at. There were many creative and gifted developers working on TS through its history.

Rich

Right. A real project need a core but start from zero is a difficult challenge.

richlevy wrote:It would be interesting if some of the developers of TS did start a new project though, not based on the core of TS, but based on what they learned developing TS and based on what is happening in the 3D market today. That might be a very interesting project to look at. There were many creative and gifted developers working on TS through its history.

Rich

For that you need a real good understanding of what other programs do in the meantime.....
Developing such a program requires lots of time and love and resources.... that doesnt come for free......
But there are very good programs out already... might as well fund those.....
Peter

I never suggested that you should not use the programs that you like, I merely entered an opinion on the topic of the thread. As for whether 3D developers are familiar with what is going on in the industry... I would imagine that they are keenly aware. I am not suggesting that this is going to happen, just that in my dream state, it could happen
As you have preached so many times on this forum, and the Caligari forums, these are only tools, use the ones that work for you

There is still room in the industry for new ideas and programs, people are willing to spend money for good tools, there is a wide gape between the AutoDesk tools and Blender.

Rich

marcel wrote:Right. A real project need a core but start from zero is a difficult challenge.

Difficult, but not impossible. Tools are constantly being made and played with by small developers, some make it into an early ALpha stage, proving a concept. Look at Sculptres, it started just this way, it came along a long way in a realitively short period of time... unfortunately the developer was brought on board ZBrush. It can and does happen, bright young people with dreams still can do amazing things in the software industry.

richlevy wrote:I never suggested that you should not use the programs that you like, I merely entered an opinion on the topic of the thread. As for whether 3D developers are familiar with what is going on in the industry... I would imagine that they are keenly aware. I am not suggesting that this is going to happen, just that in my dream state, it could happen
As you have preached so many times on this forum, and the Caligari forums, these are only tools, use the ones that work for you

There is still room in the industry for new ideas and programs, people are willing to spend money for good tools, there is a wide gape between the AutoDesk tools and Blender.

Rich

Rich I understand your point made.. I just doubt that the market is expanding...... making things in 3d still needs a lot of practice and the people who are willing to
spend time and money on this matter arent getting much more....
But your right anything could happen... i´m not stopping anybody why should i want to... if the product is well worth it I may end up using it myself..
I´m pretty much open to anything usefull.....
Peter

RAYMAN wrote:

richlevy wrote:I never suggested that you should not use the programs that you like, I merely entered an opinion on the topic of the thread. As for whether 3D developers are familiar with what is going on in the industry... I would imagine that they are keenly aware. I am not suggesting that this is going to happen, just that in my dream state, it could happen
As you have preached so many times on this forum, and the Caligari forums, these are only tools, use the ones that work for you

There is still room in the industry for new ideas and programs, people are willing to spend money for good tools, there is a wide gape between the AutoDesk tools and Blender.

Rich

Rich I understand your point made.. I just doubt that the market is expanding...... making things in 3d still needs a lot of practice and the people who are willing to
spend time and money on this matter arent getting much more....
But your right anything could happen... i´m not stopping anybody why should i want to... if the product is well worth it I may end up using it myself..
I´m pretty much open to anything usefull.....
Peter

Hey Pete

I am with you on this than. I have found some tools that work pretty well for what I like to do, when I can find the time to do anything. But I like seeing the smaller companies entering into the market and establishing a foothold, it only benefits us. It is a hard market for developers to get into though, the technical knowledge needed to develop a full featured 3d application is very comprehensive.

Who knows, it could happen, but like you say, I am not holding my breathe either

Rich