Working on new TSX

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marcel
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Re: Working on new TSX

Post by marcel »

Tested with about 2000 objects on XP and Vista 32 bits without problems.
Another idea: the info panel of TS show the number of vertices and faces but not the number of objects. Why not use the status bar of your SE to show the number of objects when we click on the name of the scene at the top of the tree?
My first use of this plugin will be to rename the object of some scenes who become complex. I forgot always to do this when i begin a scene. Just try this on a copy before to be sure all is ok.
:bananacheers:
Last idea (but maybe difficult to do?): the possibility to select several object in the SE then rename all at the same time ( nom,001 nom,002 nom,003 etc...).
The interest of a plugin is to do what the soft can do.
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Re: Working on new TSX

Post by marcel »

Problem found: if i change the name of the scene (by edit the tree) the real name of the scene don't change. Even if i close and open the plugin again, the SE show the new ( and not real) name. I need to open a new scene to avoid that.
If it is not possible to change really the name of the scene with the tree, maybe it would be better to have not the possibility to rename the scene.
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Re: Working on new TSX

Post by marcel »

Huge problem found: after installed the plugin SE, TS crash when i try to open a scene even if i don't open the plugin. If i delete the .tsx from the folder of TS, all is ok but if i put the .tsx on the folder, TS crash any time i try to load a scene. Only "create a new scene" don't crash.
It is curious because the first time i tried the SE, all was ok. Now i can't use the SE (No change on my computer since the first try and now).
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Re: Working on new TSX

Post by DesignDevil »

Ok, first to the name of the scene: There is just one way to change them: "SAVE AS". The Scene Name is just a file name. The sdk has no function to set the name or to get the name. I get the name thrue a hook in the system. That you can rename it in the tree is, because the tree can EDIT ALL nodes. On the next refresh the old name appears again because -> you can not really rename it. i hope that was good enough explained.

To the crash - that's pretty curious.
Sometimes i HAD scenes while it crashes but just if it is running. There is also a problem with array fields. These object will also crash if my plugin is running and the window is showed. Why? I have no idea - not yet - i will check this.

Thanks for reporting.

I added your ideas onto my ToDo list but i'm not sure if all is possible.
Last edited by DesignDevil on 16 Apr 2010, 14:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Working on new TSX

Post by marcel »

About my crash it is only with XP (32 bits), not Vista (32 bits).
the same scene crash on XP and not on vista.
ALL the scene on XP have the same problem with SE like if the SE is FULL uncompatible with XP (for me).
The crash is serious (need "ctrl alt del" to close).

Last idea: rifgt click on the icon to show the author of the plugin ;)
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Re: Working on new TSX

Post by DesignDevil »

NEWS from the PlugIn Front ;)

For all here - i'm still working on the TSX be patient.

I found that the Mouse Hook is not really a good idea. Well if you have just a few Objects in your scene all works very well. The problems encounter if the amount of objects in the scene goes on more than 500 Objects. In this case the SE needs to long to refresh the Tree (with 1000 Objects nearly 3 sec.)

So i completly rewrote my code for getting events and restructured the system for decting events and parameter. Anyway, it is allways slow, especially in scenes with 1000 and more objects. It is not really handy to use the SE in such a scene (not yet).

The most common problem is to detect if a GLUE or UNGLUE operation was done. In such a case i have to check the complete scene against my tree. I have to check if all objects still there (or not), if the object parents are correct (in glue or unglue cases they are wrong) and so on.

Because of tS is not able to give me events on delete or create or load a object, i also have to check the complete scene against the tree (like above) in this situations.

The KFE has the same problems with such a scene so it is unbelievable for me how you (Emmanuel) can handle such scenes?

In conclusion it is very, very, very, very difficult to find a clever system for the synchronisation between scene and tree so that it is possible to "work" and not to wait until the hour glass dissapears ;)

but i do my very best :)
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Re: Working on new TSX

Post by Emmanuel »

I realize how much this project is a big challenge. Thanks for keeping us informed of the progress :)

If a realtime behavior is too slow with glue/unglue actions, then perhaps the scene check could rest on the Refresh button ?

KFE is very slow with big scenes also... (even more when it is docked in Rosetta interface) and this is why I don't use it. It has always been a pain to work with many objects in trueSpace, and Workspace is not the exception to the rule.
PiSceneTool helped a lot ; and RSlayers have been a breath of fresh air, as it provides both a complete layer system and a set of tools to sort and manage objects.
So your work DD will be undoubtedly one of the most improvement in tS usability and efficiency !
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Re: Working on new TSX

Post by DesignDevil »

IMPORTEND QUESTION:

This post is about "which objects are showed in the Scene Explorer Plugin". So read carefully and do your test's.

I explain:
In a trueSpace scene are various objects (i.e. Polyhedrons, Subdivision Objects, Metaballs, Array Objects etc.). Not all objects which are detectable are shown in the KFE (KeyFrameEditor). For example a Nurbs Object. In the KFE you just see one Node for this object. In the scene are truely this node, a child node (group object) and under this so many childs as curves this object has. See image:
SE8.jpg
In the most cases that was showed in the KFE is enough. Normaly you never edit a single curve from a nurbs object thrue the KFE - you would (and you should) use the Edit Mode to make changes here.

Another example is a Subdivision Object. Here shows the KFE more as really is there in the scene. A Subdiv object is showed as SubDiv plus a Mesh Child. Truely in the scene is just the SubDiv object. The child is build from the KFE himself. That is the reason that tS reacts weird if you select this Mesh object.

To show all this objects is not a problem at all, it is just a point of usability and the background for this question are especially the ARRAY OBJECTS

If you create a Grid Array for example and give him 10x10x10 childs (1000 !). The KFE needs on my PC nearly 3 seconds to refresh the tree structure. My SceneExplorer needs nearly 1 second. Well this is faster but could be even faster.

On the other hand it is diffcult for me (at this point) to detect if the number of childs for a array object has changed. If you create more childs i can detect this but not if you decrease the amount of childs. I get no event from tS for this action and as conclusion the tree is not correct. A click on one of this "wrong" objects can crash tS.

From my experience i normaly never need to touch directly the child objects from such a array.

This keeps as back to the question -> which objects (or members) of a scene should be showed?

So, create in tS a few different objects and look into the KFE which objects you can select AND which you want to select. For comparisation you can use the MotionStudio Plugin. His SceneTree shows also ALL objects which are detectable.

I hope i have understandable explained what i want, so please help me with this and find the right decisions.

Thanks, DD
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marcel
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Re: Working on new TSX

Post by marcel »

Change the #items of a grid array crash (each time) TS if the windows SE is open.
There is no interest to see what there is inside the grid array (it is the same thing x # items). The best way would be (if possible) to show the object and some infos without the possibility to developp the branch and maybe avoid this crash.
ex: Cube,001 (array: 1000 items)
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Re: Working on new TSX

Post by Emmanuel »

DesignDevil wrote: From my experience i normaly never need to touch directly the child objects from such a array.
Same experience here.

Sometimes I even use Clinton's PolyCombiner tsX to convert a selection (glued objects) into a single "mesh" in order to optimize scene exploration/management. PolyCombiner can be used together with the Decompose_into_objects tool to manipulate an array (or any set of objects) as a single object, and vice-versa.
By the way, Clinton, we miss you as a tsX developper ;)
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